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Author Topic: Team USA and the salute.....  (Read 3867 times)
saleem
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« on: August 23, 2006, 01:51:40 am »

So I caught some of the highlights of Team USA at the worlds today. I see that D.Howard and a few other players have incorporated a military salute after making big plays. I'm thinking that it's a part of the TeamUSA plan to add patriotism as a key element to the team chemistry. But, whatever the reason I don't like it.

My objections:
1. They are not soldiers. I didn't like it when the Denver Broncos did it either. I am tired of every activity being equated to something as serious as military service.
2. It's unceccessarily belligerent. It seems to be somewhat provocative given the flashpoint that America's military policies have become around the world and domestically. (Basketball is and should be an inclusive experience. These guys should be ambassadors of American basketball not a vanguard of jingoism.)

Any thoughts?



Here is a link to a related article. It also includes Etan Thomas' comments on the military piece presented on NBAtv.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060820/cm_thenation/20060828troops_and_hoops
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big bad kahoona
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2006, 02:38:01 am »

I don't wanna drop a one-liner, but all i can say is i agree. I'll just wait for someone to disagree to argue with him/her. Smiley
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94by50
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2006, 09:03:28 am »

I think the only opinions that matter are the opinions of the military men and women being saluted.  If they don't appreciate it, then they can and should ask the players to stop.  If they do, then it's not worth worrying about.

Besides, this has nothing to do with the Mile High Salute.  That was a teammate to teammate celebration, and also not worth worrying about.
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saleem
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2006, 04:26:45 pm »

Quote from: "94by50"
I think the only opinions that matter are the opinions of the military men and women being saluted.  If they don't appreciate it, then they can and should ask the players to stop.  If they do, then it's not worth worrying about.

Besides, this has nothing to do with the Mile High Salute.  That was a teammate to teammate celebration, and also not worth worrying about.
Thanks for you opinion. I would like to bring attention to a few things. Military personnel by and large aren't being saluted. These celebratory salutes are being given to other players. Even so the tradition and history of a salute is military/nationalistic in nature. A sign of respect for rank or country. Should it be used to celebrate a blocked shot or touchdown? I'm posing this not as an attack on your position but to foster discussion.

(This part though is a little nitpicky :wink: : The Mile High salute the Broncos use started when Mike Anderson, a former serviceman brought it to the team in 2000. He did catch a lot of heck from some vet groups for doing so. I also vaguely remember when KG caught heat for using "going to war" analogies in his comments about the Wolves season?)

Let me say that I don't think of the salute as some sort of "sacred" act. Rather my question is why is it necessary at all? Why must we market America's basketball program militarily? It may not as you say offend servicemen , but it may offend others(even if it's a minority of people) Sports organizations have a history of removing gestures that may even slightly offend. ( Case in point the NFL's throat slashing ban. Which never offended me btw.) Why are they silent or complicit in this case?
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Court_visioN
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2006, 04:38:56 pm »

Personally I don't see anything wrong with it... This is TEAM USA after all... and like another poster said, it's just a player-to-player celebration, not that big a deal. It's better than chest bumping, in any case. Or chest pounding, come to think of it...


This might look a little weird in international competition.
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kwolffsc
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2006, 06:15:59 pm »

Well I can see Saleem's point of course. But I have to disagree. I think that it's patriotic and if the U.S. military had a problem with it they would ask the players to stop. I thought it was cool when I first heard             about it(saleem). Hey court vision I love the sig. Ready to kick *** now that's patriotic
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faberg2008
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2006, 06:46:45 pm »

I respect your opinion but hey, they representing the USA.
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Knicksfan81
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2006, 01:05:19 am »

I am in the military and have been for 6+ years.  Personally i dont think theres anything wrong with them saluting.......The salute wasnt originated by the US military any way. it was a way for knights in the midevil times to recognise eachother,  They would lift thier face mask as they passed.  The jesture of using your right hand to lift the mask was carried on by soldiers in combat and adopted by the military.  We are not the only military in the world to do it.  I think if anything Team USA is doing a patriotic thing.  It shows pride in thier country and that they support the country and the troops.  Just because they're patriotic that does'nt mean that they support the decesions that the countries leaders are making it just shows that they are proud Americans.
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Knicksfan81
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2006, 01:13:56 am »

Quote from: "saleem"
Quote from: "94by50"
I think the only opinions that matter are the opinions of the military men and women being saluted.  If they don't appreciate it, then they can and should ask the players to stop.  If they do, then it's not worth worrying about.

Besides, this has nothing to do with the Mile High Salute.  That was a teammate to teammate celebration, and also not worth worrying about.
Thanks for you opinion. I would like to bring attention to a few things. Military personnel by and large aren't being saluted. These celebratory salutes are being given to other players. Even so the tradition and history of a salute is military/nationalistic in nature. A sign of respect for rank or country. Should it be used to celebrate a blocked shot or touchdown? I'm posing this not as an attack on your position but to foster discussion.

(This part though is a little nitpicky :wink: : The Mile High salute the Broncos use started when Mike Anderson, a former serviceman brought it to the team in 2000. He did catch a lot of heck from some vet groups for doing so. I also vaguely remember when KG caught heat for using "going to war" analogies in his comments about the Wolves season?)

Let me say that I don't think of the salute as some sort of "sacred" act. Rather my question is why is it necessary at all? Why must we market America's basketball program militarily? It may not as you say offend servicemen , but it may offend others(even if it's a minority of people) Sports organizations have a history of removing gestures that may even slightly offend. ( Case in point the NFL's throat slashing ban. Which never offended me btw.) Why are they silent or complicit in this case?


No matter what people are always giong to be offended.  The game would be lame if the players just turned around and ran back up the court with out emotion.  Or score touchdowns and just gently put the ball on the ground.  It adds excitement and energy.  If it offends someone then oh well.  We cant be to pollitically correct.  I think America is getting too soft.  Think about when we were kids, we were ruff...... didnt have to have child seats in cars, rode bikes with out helmets, got spankings, played rough in gym and recess. Nowadys kids are carrying back packs with wheels on them.  Parents cant spank thier kids, and were worried about things as trivial as basketball player saluting eachother because it may offend someone.


TUFFIN UP AMERICA
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saleem
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2006, 02:19:47 am »

Quote from: "Knicksfan81"
I am in the military and have been for 6+ years.  Personally i dont think theres anything wrong with them saluting.......The salute wasnt originated by the US military any way. it was a way for knights in the midevil times to recognise eachother,  They would lift thier face mask as they passed.  The jesture of using your right hand to lift the mask was carried on by soldiers in combat and adopted by the military.  We are not the only military in the world to do it.  I think if anything Team USA is doing a patriotic thing.  It shows pride in thier country and that they support the country and the troops.  Just because they're patriotic that does'nt mean that they support the decesions that the countries leaders are making it just shows that they are proud Americans.
Good thoughts. Thanks for giving a serviceman's view.

On your point about the origin of the salute, I am aware of it. It's one of the things that prodded me into posting this thread. The salute is not an American invention. It isn't really linked to one country at all. So why is it then considered uniquely patriotic? Is our identity as a nation only an expression of our military might? Is there no ideal beyond bombs, blood and bullets that unite us?

Let's also look at the mission of International Sports. Most of these games (Olympics, Pan-Am,Goodwill) have mission statements that specifically prohibit the promotion of nationalism. The ideal is one of highlighting the common bond of all nations through sport.

Once again I'm posting this to foster discussion, not attacking anyone else's viewpoint.

On a personal note let me also say the salute doesn't offend me I just don't like it. (example: I don't like skiing, but it doesn't offend) This is not some attempt to force P.C. attitudes rather I am really trying to explore the place of these ideas in our current culture. (And in my opinion the most P.C. phrase tossed about in the last decade is "We support the troops." But I'll save that for another thread.)
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kwolffsc
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2006, 11:44:46 am »

Good opinions guys!
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