Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 8   Go Down
 
Author Topic: CHI-POR  (Read 16799 times)
Drexler-Roy
All-Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3716



« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2008, 04:30:28 pm »

Phiboy
Bibby when healthy is better than Hinrich.His career numbers say so and he has proven it on the court.His shorter contract also increases his value.
Freeland only worth a second round pick?Sorry he was drafted in the first round and reports out of England say his game is really coming around.His worth to Portland could also increase if Portland trades Frye.
Pryzbilla>>>>Wright.Maybe he does only play 15mpg for Portland next season but for those 15minutes he will offer good defense and rebounding a major neccessity to winning a title.Besides he would play 30minutes a game for Chicago and make them better
Your claim that Hinrich>>>>Bibby does not wash.Hinrich is a CAREER 41% shooter which is pretty much equal to Bibbys worst season.Bibby has also been the better passer.You say Bibby is in decline but didn't Hinrichs game regress last season?Bibby started out at a higher level so even if in decline is he much worse than Hinrich?
 I would also question your ability to find ANY team that would give their first for Shelden Williams at this time let alone a fairly high one like the 13th
Enough ranting in the end a trade should improve the team.I fail to see how Hinrich improves the team if you have to give up 1)Pryzbilla who if not traded will be the best backup center in the league 2)Blake who was good enough to start for a team that WON MORE GAMES this season than the team that his replacement is coming from 3)whomever Portland grabs with the 13th pick 4)Joel Freeland who if reports are true is developing into a monster rebounder
 Hinrich has never been the best player on his team in Chicago and at times could be said to be third or fourth.That would become even more pronounced in Portland where he could fall to being the SIXTH best player very easily and maybe the SEVENTH if Webster develops.Hell if Portland plays Roy at the point and starts Fernandez at the two Hinrich might not even START for Portland.
 Portland is interested in Hinrich but would be foolish to hurt depth and overall talent.It would also to be foolish to surrender so much in trade for one player(unless that player is extremely talented) that other trades would be precluded
 An essentially 4 for one trade should bring more than a slight upgrade.On a scale of 1 to 100 Blake would rate out in the mid 50's.Hinrich at his career best is high 60's and if like last year low 60's with the only advantage his quickness
Logged

Greenwing wrote
Finally, I'm going to state this right now.  The Bulls will have a better record next season that the Portland Trailblazers.
Portland record 54-28
Chicago record 41-41
phiboy207
Starter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 929


« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2008, 12:32:02 am »

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Phiboy
Bibby when healthy is better than Hinrich.His career numbers say so and he has proven it on the court.His shorter contract also increases his value.
Maybe, maybe not.  But there is the ? of whether he'll ever be fully healthy again.  That ? alone means drops his value substantially.  And don't undersell Hinrich - you may not value what he brings, but he's a very good player.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Freeland only worth a second round pick?Sorry he was drafted in the first round and reports out of England say his game is really coming around.His worth to Portland could also increase if Portland trades Frye.
It's not that important, just sub in the 2nd rounder.  But if you want to talk about this then fine.  1st, I know where Freeland was picked - the last player in the 1st round 2 years ago, generally considered one of the weakest drafts in the last 10 years (prep-to-pros were stopped leaving a dearth of prospects especially in the 1st).  Since he was a 1st though, he has a 3 year guaranteed contract which is the same contract that PHO has seen fit to basically give away many x over the last couple few years.  He's a player that POR hasn't seen fit to develop on your roster in that 2 year span and doesn't appear interested in bringing him over this year either.  He's been left in the Spanish ACB league where he is consider a prospect even there.  He gets less a quarter/game in a league where if he had the athletic ability to be a legit NBA'er than he should be at least borderline dominant.  He may be progressing, but will he be a decent player in the ACB league, or progress enough to be a decent player in the NBA?  That's the kind of difference that raises big ? among NBA FOs.
The value of overseas prospects is @ an all-time low.  Splitter staying overseas shows this.  Why would someone decide to come over from salaries that are @ an all-time high overseas to a low, fixed contract (Freeland's salary will be less than $1 mil for his 1st 3 years in the NBA) in a foreign country with a higher standard of living?  It's a catch-22 with overseas prospects: if he's good enough to justify his salary, then the player may decide simply to stay overseas and get paid big $$$.  If he's mediocre then he's more likely to come over, but the team would be less likely to want him.  Trading him for now would mean you keep more valuable assets to trade while getting decent value for him.
And with all this, you freak out that I drop him less than 15 draft slots...I'll never understand.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Pryzbilla>>>>Wright.Maybe he does only play 15mpg for Portland next season but for those 15minutes he will offer good defense and rebounding a major neccessity to winning a title.Besides he would play 30minutes a game for Chicago and make them better
Since when has the trade value of a player with an expiring contract even been weighed by the skill of the player?  Actually, the more skilled the player, the less likely you can move him in his last year - Bird Rights come into play.  No, the trade value of a player does not necessarily equate to minutes or production.  This is why Ainge sent Wally Szczberiak for Ray Allen instead of Theo Ratliff.  He knew that he was going to make a run @ Garnett and knew that Ratliff's contract simply had more trade value than Szczberiak's shooting.
As for Przybilla, lets be real: he wouldn't play 30 mins/game for any team in the NBA.  Hell, he wouldn't even be the best big in CHI - Gooden would take that honor.   Any team that would acquire him would also get a prospect to replace him and that prospect would get minutes.  CHI would have 3 (Thomas, Noah, #13) who would need somewhere around 20 minutes each, kick in another 25-30 for Gooden, and your left with around 15-20 minutes for Przybilla.  Obviously, your overrating his PT wherever he ends up.  If POR had another player that made as much, then he could prolly be subbed in here, but alas you don't really...unless you'd prefer to sub in Oden for Przybilla.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Your claim that Hinrich>>>>Bibby does not wash.Hinrich is a CAREER 41% shooter which is pretty much equal to Bibbys worst season.Bibby has also been the better passer.You say Bibby is in decline but didn't Hinrichs game regress last season?Bibby started out at a higher level so even if in decline is he much worse than Hinrich?
Look, Bibby getting near the end of the road due to his injury issues.  He had surgery on his thumb last year and constantly had issues with it through the rest of the year (missed large parts of a couple of games and his "shot was off" - his words - for a couple of more).  He also has issues with his feet (something about his arches, it  just p*ssed me off that he wasn't playing...again).  No, his career is dying a slow death and SAC traded him @ a good time.
Does Hinrich have the same injury ?s?  Is there some reason that Hinrich should be considered in decline when most players @ his position are in their prime?  If not, then why does one off year matter when the entire team had the same off-year (which prolly indicates coaching)?  Well, I know the answer to the last one: it doesn't, it's just something that people point @ that thinks it means something, but it really doesn't.  1 off year is just 1 off year - nothing more.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
I would also question your ability to find ANY team that would give their first for Shelden Williams at this time let alone a fairly high one like the 13th
Many NBA GMs would see someone who has proven that he's willing to put in the work necessary to be an NBA player.  The fact that he's shown some ability on the boards @ the NBA level gives him a leg up on players like Marresse Speights - who may have a very high ceiling, but also a very low floor and his ?able work ethic means that he might end up closer to his floor than his ceiling.  At worst, Shelden will give you a guy who can give you solid rebounding as a backup grade big...or about what Przybilla offers.  Yet, Shelden still has upside as a solid NBA starter.  Yes, a high floor does have some value - why else do so many mocks have Kevin Love in the top 5?  Not saying he'd go that high in this draft, but yes, many NBA GMs would draft him in the 1st if they had a need @ PF.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Enough ranting in the end a trade should improve the team.I fail to see how Hinrich improves the team if you have to give up 1)Pryzbilla who if not traded will be the best backup center in the league 2)Blake who was good enough to start for a team that WON MORE GAMES this season than the team that his replacement is coming from 3)whomever Portland grabs with the 13th pick 4)Joel Freeland who if reports are true is developing into a monster rebounder
I really don't understand most of these arguments.  I mean the LAL won more games than both Utah and NOH, so does that mean that LAL would freak out if they traded Derek Fisher in the package for either Deron or CP3?  Przybilla may be a good backup C, but does that mean that who'd prefer to keep him over more valuable trade assets when making a deal?  Yes, prospects do have value in trades, but does that mean it's better to hold them and hope they pan out instead of getting a player who'll help you win?  I really don't understand this.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Hinrich has never been the best player on his team in Chicago and at times could be said to be third or fourth.That would become even more pronounced in Portland where he could fall to being the SIXTH best player very easily and maybe the SEVENTH if Webster develops.Hell if Portland plays Roy at the point and starts Fernandez at the two Hinrich might not even START for Portland.
Portland is interested in Hinrich but would be foolish to hurt depth and overall talent.It would also to be foolish to surrender so much in trade for one player(unless that player is extremely talented) that other trades would be precluded
Look, say what you will, but you obviously underrate Hinrich.  He's been on the NBA All-Defensive team (2nd team in 06-07).  He's a pretty good 3-PT shooter - 38% for his career.  He's near automatic from the FT line @ 82% for his career.  He's a definite upgrade @ the PG position for POR, regardless of how much you underrate him.
Now, starting Roy @ PG may be a good idea - or maybe not.  There's obviously some risk in moving the best perimeter player to another position, but it may work.  If it doesn't though, your left with a big hole in a year when you could have made a run though.  Blake might be an OK stopgap for the year, but in reality, such a mistake also might leave you in a 1st exit or missing the playoffs altogether when you could have done more.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
An essentially 4 for one trade should bring more than a slight upgrade.On a scale of 1 to 100 Blake would rate out in the mid 50's.Hinrich at his career best is high 60's and if like last year low 60's with the only advantage his quickness
I'm floored here.  Flabbergasted really.  We've already seen your repeated refusal to accept the fact that Hinrich is a decent player, and that's fine, whatever, everyone has their prejudices.  Now the comment that gets me is "Other trades would be precluded"...why?  Hell, the entire reason for this trade was so that you could still make a run @ some bigger fish if you wanted.  Let's say that MIA decides to trade D-Wade: do you really think MIA would think that Przybilla and Blake would mean that they would take less in prospects?  LaFrentz's contract would be more attractive to MIA.  Do you honestly believe that Pat Riley gives a sh*t about some limey who can't get minutes in Spain?  The #13 pick would have some value in that deal, but MIA prolly wouldn't do something like that before the draft, so that wouldn't matter.  No, the pieces given up here would not preclude other deals to be made - it really wouldn't even hinder them.
Logged

phiboy207
Starter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 929


« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2008, 12:34:01 am »

Double Post - Sorry.
Logged

Drexler-Roy
All-Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3716



« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2008, 02:24:08 pm »

Phiboy I do nit underrate Hinrich you overrate him while underrating the Blazer players. You say automatic at the ft line and its 82%??82%is good but not even in the top 20 or 30 of the league.You say Hinrich is a good shooter and point to his 3pt % of 38%. Sorry that is at best average for perimeter players and would only have been 4th or 5th on last years Blazer roster.Blake shot 41% from the 3 last year and is the SAME 38% FOR HIS CAREER.Hinrichs career fg% is also only 41% the same as Blakes.
 You ask if the Lakers would complain about giving up Derek Fisher in a trade for Deron williams or Chris Paul.If Portland was getting  a great talent like one of  those players I wouldn't complain either but you are offering KIRK HINRICH who is WAAAAAAAAYYYY below them in talent.Hinrich is an upgrade over Blake but not hugely so.
 Pryzbilla would get 30mpg in Chicago as he would be their only true center with Noah being the backup.Noah is a pf who can occasionally play center.Gooden is almost strictly a pf.Pryz played 24mpg for Portland and we had Aldridge (way better than any Chicago big)play minutes there as well as Frye.Pryz is a player who when in the game can anchor the defense and did so for Portland and will maintain the interior D when Oden is out of the game
 Freeland will be in Portlands summer league this year and if Frye is traded will probably be signed as Aldridges backup
 Shelden Williams averaged less than13mpg for the big man challenged Kings after being traded there.Hardly an endorsement for asking for a 1st from any team in the league
 Phoenix has indeed traded(sold)many of their firsts the last several years and look at where that has left them.Old and lacking depth.One of those draft picks they traded was Luol deng. Ever heard of him?Draft picks have value and there are several players who will be available at 13 that could if not immediately help could do so in the future.
 In the end Hinrich would be an upgrade over Blake BUT NOT A HUGE ONE
Portland has many options available. They could sign Sam Cassel for the interim while drafting a pg to develop,they could trade up in the draft(for less than your asking) and draft someone like Westbrook(who's D may=> than Hinrichs) or Bayless,wait a year and sign Bibby(who will not expect anything other than a salary cut so his current salary does not apply),the Suns Barbosa could be had for the right price (salary consious suns would love Raefs expiring if we took one of their long term bad contracts like Diaw),sign a free agent this year or next(a one year deal with Ben Gordon who would become an UFA next season when Portland has a good deal of caproom).Think about those options and realize Portland DOES NOT NEED HINRICH.He would be a nice player to have but not at the price you are asking.Nowhere near
Logged

Greenwing wrote
Finally, I'm going to state this right now.  The Bulls will have a better record next season that the Portland Trailblazers.
Portland record 54-28
Chicago record 41-41
Jason Rubin
a.k.a. greenwing
MVP
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10809



WWW
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2008, 02:58:04 pm »

Portland needs a point guard because they currently don't have a good one next to Roy (a combo guard).  Who's good that's available?  Hinrich, Ford, Marbury and draft picks.  Of those choices, which would Portland want to go after the most?

Marbury would be a cancer to them.

Ford is injury-prone.

Hinrich is very good but is coming off a bad year (although his entire team was down, so that doesn't count as much).

There are probably no good point guards available at their pick in the draft.

Logical choice?  Go after Hinrich.

Would the Bulls be willing to send him there?  Probably not because there are other potential offers that would be better for them due to Portland's draft pick not being that high.
Logged

Drexler-Roy
All-Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3716



« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2008, 04:02:33 pm »

Greenwing which team picking ahead of Portland would trade their pick(and a player for salcap purposes) for Hinrich?All the teams drafting ahead of Portland would seem to prefer younger players to develop for a rebuilding process.Portlands is the highest selection available for a player of Hinrichs talent,contract and age.
 Portland has many options to pair with Roy in the backcourt(see my previous post for some). Other options could include starting Fernandez(a pretty good ballhandler by all accounts)and Roy,standing pat until the trade deadline when LaFrentz's expiring becomes even more valuable and even looking at a S&T for Arenas).Hinrich is a good player but he is not a huge upgrade over Blake
 If you do not believe Portland can trade up remember we have several assets to trade up(while using the 13th in any trade) including Jack,3 seconds,Frye,Sergio.How far to trade up for Westbrook 4 or 5 spots?Charlotte at 9 might accept Jack or Frye and the 13th .Portland then would still have assets to move up further.Maybe even enough to get Bayless or Mayo.
 Hinrich is not our only option and may not even be our best.
Logged

Greenwing wrote
Finally, I'm going to state this right now.  The Bulls will have a better record next season that the Portland Trailblazers.
Portland record 54-28
Chicago record 41-41
phiboy207
Starter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 929


« Reply #66 on: June 06, 2008, 11:08:11 pm »

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Phiboy I do nit underrate Hinrich you overrate him while underrating the Blazer players. You say automatic at the ft line and its 82%??82%is good but not even in the top 20 or 30 of the league.You say Hinrich is a good shooter and point to his 3pt % of 38%. Sorry that is at best average for perimeter players and would only have been 4th or 5th on last years Blazer roster.Blake shot 41% from the 3 last year and is the SAME 38% FOR HIS CAREER.Hinrichs career fg% is also only 41% the same as Blakes.
You ask if the Lakers would complain about giving up Derek Fisher in a trade for Deron williams or Chris Paul.If Portland was getting  a great talent like one of  those players I wouldn't complain either but you are offering KIRK HINRICH who is WAAAAAAAAYYYY below them in talent.Hinrich is an upgrade over Blake but not hugely so.
 In the end Hinrich would be an upgrade over Blake BUT NOT A HUGE ONE
38% from 3 is average?  82% isn't worth it?  OK, you've officially gotten ridiculous.  38% ranks Hinrich in the top 100 for a career from 3.  That's without ever really having a low post threat to pull offenses D in.  That's better than average.  Very few of the players ahead have selected to an All-Defensive team; even fewer that have ranked in the top 10 in assists over a year - which Hinrich has done...twice.  82% would have been 3rd on POR (only behind 2 backups - Jack and Jones) and that and his handle would make him an obvious player to have in the game in the final minutes.
As far as Blake vs. Hinrich - even more ridiculous.  Paxson, who has ridden Hinrich's contributions to being a finalist for NBA Executive of the Year, and other GMs that remained anonymous for the story have shown or said that Hinrich is a very good player.  Not 1 of 30 NBA GM saw fit to even bother throwing the mid-level @ Blake - not even POR. I understand that fans can become so attached to players on the team that they overrate them and underrate players from teams that disappoint, but c'mon, let's be real: Hinrich is a huge upgrade over Blake.  Why you'd honestly tried to convince yourself of something when every GM in the NBA, even your own, has shown through actions that they would disagree with you is really beyond me.

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Pryzbilla would get 30mpg in Chicago as he would be their only true center with Noah being the backup.Noah is a pf who can occasionally play center.Gooden is almost strictly a pf.Pryz played 24mpg for Portland and we had Aldridge (way better than any Chicago big)play minutes there as well as Frye.Pryz is a player who when in the game can anchor the defense and did so for Portland and will maintain the interior D when Oden is out of the game
POR may have given Przybilla minutes @ C, but that was prolly to hold Oden's place and not affect the development of Aldridge who would need to learn how to play with a big C.  It doesn't mean that CHI would though - they actually have more options than POR (since POR has the line of succession set).  Przybilla is a backup C and easily replaceable, so why would CHI or anyone give him minutes over prospects that could help them to a championship?  This is why Przybilla hasn't had a full NBA season where he averaged even 25 minutes in his career.  Backups are replaceable: this offseason alone, Diop, Mutumbo, and Mihm will prolly be available for a contract cheaper and shorter than what Przybilla has left and give similar production in the limited minutes that Przybilla would get.  Why would any NBA team commit 30 minutes to a player so easily replaceable when they have prospects for the position?  It's simple: they wouldn't.  Any argument that any team would is really just trying to convince yourself of a fallacy.  Like deciding where CHI will play their prospects.  They will decide if they will prefer Noah as a high post C - ala Camby - or not (right now, it looks like they will play him as a high post C).  It's just another way of convincing yourself that Przybilla has the value that he really doesn't.

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Freeland will be in Portlands summer league this year and if Frye is traded will probably be signed as Aldridges backup
Good for him, hope he does well and has a small buyout.  Once again, just sub in a 2nd for him - it really doesn't matter that much.

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Shelden Williams averaged less than13mpg for the big man challenged Kings after being traded there.Hardly an endorsement for asking for a 1st from any team in the league
SAC had a plan for Shelden, and it obviously was to integrate him into the team before giving him significant minutes.  He earned his PT toward the end of the year and played well.  His PT will grow like any other prospect that isn't elite.  This seems like a natural progression when bringing in a prospect mid-year.

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Phoenix has indeed traded(sold)many of their firsts the last several years and look at where that has left them.Old and lacking depth.One of those draft picks they traded was Luol deng. Ever heard of him?Draft picks have value and there are several players who will be available at 13 that could if not immediately help could do so in the future.
Is your argument here really that PHO's decision that they didn't like anyone @ 8 one year and took a future 1st from a lottery team similar to simply selling picks in the 20s?  Man, those 2 have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
PHO sold their picks in the 20s because they didn't want to have to give guaranteed contracts to a player who would be sitting the bench on a team competing for a championship.  Not being able to develop the prospects they would have gotten there would still have left them old and without depth.

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Portland has many options available. They could sign Sam Cassel for the interim while drafting a pg to develop,they could trade up in the draft(for less than your asking) and draft someone like Westbrook(who's D may=> than Hinrichs) or Bayless,wait a year and sign Bibby(who will not expect anything other than a salary cut so his current salary does not apply),the Suns Barbosa could be had for the right price (salary consious suns would love Raefs expiring if we took one of their long term bad contracts like Diaw),sign a free agent this year or next(a one year deal with Ben Gordon who would become an UFA next season when Portland has a good deal of caproom).Think about those options and realize Portland DOES NOT NEED HINRICH.He would be a nice player to have but not at the price you are asking.Nowhere near
Yes, POR has options, but not too many of these are realistic if your trying to stay cost conscious.  
Cassell is looking for rings and POR needs to do more before you could claim that level of a team.
Being the guinea pig for a position switch always sucks - especially for a prospect.  This encompasses both Westbrook and Fernandez.
Without giving up someone out of your core, you won't land Bayless.  A team in position to select Bayless would look to build around him, so unless you give a player that the team could build around - forget it.  This isn't football or baseball where being able to spread talent over an entire team makes a big difference - one great player yields more wins than a deep bench.  
Not even PHO would allow one of the best shooter in the NBA go for an expiring contract - even if they could unload a contract.  Other teams have offered and they said no (what, you think that no NBA GM has had the same thought?) - that won't change now.  To get Barbosa you'd have to give them something, and they'd prolly want Roy or they'd just pass.
Bibby means your waiting a year and I'd doubt he'd drop his salary by the 1/3 it'd take to stop POR from having to do a sign and trade.  He might just retire instead of taking that, or at least wait until the season starts.

Look, it's obvious that you love your players - I understand that.  I'm glad you like your team.  But in all honesty, this deal gives you a very nice upgrade @ a premium position without upsetting the top of your roster nor giving up any prospect that has more value after the draft this month.  The only real hole you'd create - a end of the bench big - could easily be covered in the off-season with a low cost FA signing or by giving Aldridge, well, less minutes @ C than he played last year since Oden should garner more minutes than Przybilla played.  If you'd prefer to pay for a star, then more power to you and good luck.  You'll have to part with either Oden, Aldridge, or Roy + a couple of other prospects that you'll be disappointed to lose, but you'll get a very good player.  If your looking for steady improvement without losing future roster flexibility, then this is a deal that an good NBA exec like Pritchard should consider.
Logged

Jason Rubin
a.k.a. greenwing
MVP
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10809



WWW
« Reply #67 on: June 06, 2008, 11:30:26 pm »

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Greenwing which team picking ahead of Portland would trade their pick(and a player for salcap purposes) for Hinrich?All the teams drafting ahead of Portland would seem to prefer younger players to develop for a rebuilding process.Portlands is the highest selection available for a player of Hinrichs talent,contract and age.
 Portland has many options to pair with Roy in the backcourt(see my previous post for some). Other options could include starting Fernandez(a pretty good ballhandler by all accounts)and Roy,standing pat until the trade deadline when LaFrentz's expiring becomes even more valuable and even looking at a S&T for Arenas).Hinrich is a good player but he is not a huge upgrade over Blake
 If you do not believe Portland can trade up remember we have several assets to trade up(while using the 13th in any trade) including Jack,3 seconds,Frye,Sergio.How far to trade up for Westbrook 4 or 5 spots?Charlotte at 9 might accept Jack or Frye and the 13th .Portland then would still have assets to move up further.Maybe even enough to get Bayless or Mayo.
 Hinrich is not our only option and may not even be our best.


The question becomes which teams that are drafting ahead of Portland need a good point guard?  Those teams are Miami, Seattle, LA Clippers, Indiana and Sacramento.  That's five potential suitors that could offer better deals for Hinrich.
Logged

Drexler-Roy
All-Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3716



« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2008, 12:26:20 am »

Greenwing which of those  5 teams will trade their pick for Hinrich?
Miami?You would need a LOT more than Hinrich for their pick and I do not believe any combo of Chicago players could reasonably get the #2 Seattle?Pretty much the same as with Miami.Chicago has nothing Seattle would give up the #4 for except the #1
Clippers? Due to salcap rules they would need to offer a player or players in the same deal.Besides I think that considering where they are at talent wise they would probably prefer to draft either Mayo or Westbrook(a local boy btw) and save on salaries.If they did trade they would want much more than Hinrich for the 7th
Indiana?Likely they are going rebuild mode(see the ONeal trade rumors) but if not salary must return in trade(those damn pesky salcap rules again).Looking at the Pacers salary page it looks like it would have to be Troy Murphy(signed $11million per year for next 3 years).Tinsley might work but another filler player would probably need to be added
Sacramento?Already an old team looking to get younger.If they are shooting for long term mediocrity they could trade their pick and Kenny Thomas for Hinrich but are more likely to trade veterans for young prospects
After Portland things do not get much better as GS and Phoenix already have pg's better than Hinrich so maybe it's the 16th pick from the 76er's.Would they be interested in HInrich?Only if they traded away Andre Miller first
 After that the next team that might show interest is Cleveland at 19.Do you want to trade to a divisional rival.Which Cleveland salary do you take on to draft 6 spots later in the draft?Eric Snow's is probably the only player in salary range they give up for Hinrich
 Phiboy if you prefer Diop(no shotblocking,no real rebounding),Mihm(hasn't played in how long due to injury) and Mutombo is not leaving Houston.Pryzbilla averaged 8.4rpg in those limited minutes and is a better defender than ANY Chicago center currently on the roster.Noah may be a good pf someday but as a center he lacks the bulk.Then theres that little situation involving marijuana recently.Pryzbilla is not easily replaced.Pryzbilla is a true 7footer who rebounds and plays defense.Yes Oden will replace him in the starting lineup but we in Portland see him as a valuable piece.He will be a mentor to Oden while Oden learns the NBA game and he will anchor the second units defense.Also imagine a last possesion ahead by one or two.Portland puts on the floor a lineup of Oden,Pryzbilla,Aldridge ,Roy and a defensive player at point.Not going to score inside very often vs that lineup
Yes 38%from 3 is average for a perimeter player.Portland this past season had FOUR(including Blake)shoot that % or better with several more shooting close to that %.include Fernandez as a good possibility to equal that if not better
Logged

Greenwing wrote
Finally, I'm going to state this right now.  The Bulls will have a better record next season that the Portland Trailblazers.
Portland record 54-28
Chicago record 41-41
phiboy207
Starter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 929


« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2008, 10:25:25 pm »

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
 Phiboy if you prefer Diop(no shotblocking,no real rebounding),Mihm(hasn't played in how long due to injury) and Mutombo is not leaving Houston.Pryzbilla averaged 8.4rpg in those limited minutes and is a better defender than ANY Chicago center currently on the roster.Noah may be a good pf someday but as a center he lacks the bulk.Then theres that little situation involving marijuana recently.Pryzbilla is not easily replaced.Pryzbilla is a true 7footer who rebounds and plays defense.Yes Oden will replace him in the starting lineup but we in Portland see him as a valuable piece.He will be a mentor to Oden while Oden learns the NBA game and he will anchor the second units defense.Also imagine a last possesion ahead by one or two.Portland puts on the floor a lineup of Oden,Pryzbilla,Aldridge ,Roy and a defensive player at point.Not going to score inside very often vs that lineup
Diop had more blocks in his per-48s as Przybilla and only slightly less rebounds and points.  Dikembe doesn't care about HOU as much as he loves the $$$.  He is supporting an entire tribe in Africa (I think his current thing is that he is trying to build a hospital), and the $$$ comes in handy.  Yes, he would have to outbid HOU and have a better chance @ a championship (yes, he does want a ring), but he would be willing to travel.  Mihm could approximate his production in limited minutes, if, as you point out, he's healthy.  Kwame Brown could approximate the production as well if he were willing to take a large pay cut, but considering his career, he just might.  Przybilla is very replaceable on the court, although apparently not with the fans.
Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
 Yes 38%from 3 is average for a perimeter player.Portland this past season had FOUR(including Blake)shoot that % or better with several more shooting close to that %.include Fernandez as a good possibility to equal that if not better
4th on the team...sounds like a POR runs scheme where they expect players to hit  the 3 - which Hinrich does.  Being that it's schematic, POR prolly gets the player more open looks than CHI and you'd think that Hinrich's % would even go up.  Add in the fact that he gives All-League D and a top 10 assist man...why do you keep fighting him?
Logged

Jason Rubin
a.k.a. greenwing
MVP
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10809



WWW
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2008, 11:56:00 pm »

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Greenwing which of those  5 teams will trade their pick for Hinrich?
Miami?You would need a LOT more than Hinrich for their pick and I do not believe any combo of Chicago players could reasonably get the #2 Seattle?Pretty much the same as with Miami.Chicago has nothing Seattle would give up the #4 for except the #1
Clippers? Due to salcap rules they would need to offer a player or players in the same deal.Besides I think that considering where they are at talent wise they would probably prefer to draft either Mayo or Westbrook(a local boy btw) and save on salaries.If they did trade they would want much more than Hinrich for the 7th
Indiana?Likely they are going rebuild mode(see the ONeal trade rumors) but if not salary must return in trade(those damn pesky salcap rules again).Looking at the Pacers salary page it looks like it would have to be Troy Murphy(signed $11million per year for next 3 years).Tinsley might work but another filler player would probably need to be added
Sacramento?Already an old team looking to get younger.If they are shooting for long term mediocrity they could trade their pick and Kenny Thomas for Hinrich but are more likely to trade veterans for young prospects
After Portland things do not get much better as GS and Phoenix already have pg's better than Hinrich so maybe it's the 16th pick from the 76er's.Would they be interested in HInrich?Only if they traded away Andre Miller first
 After that the next team that might show interest is Cleveland at 19.Do you want to trade to a divisional rival.Which Cleveland salary do you take on to draft 6 spots later in the draft?Eric Snow's is probably the only player in salary range they give up for Hinrich
 Phiboy if you prefer Diop(no shotblocking,no real rebounding),Mihm(hasn't played in how long due to injury) and Mutombo is not leaving Houston.Pryzbilla averaged 8.4rpg in those limited minutes and is a better defender than ANY Chicago center currently on the roster.Noah may be a good pf someday but as a center he lacks the bulk.Then theres that little situation involving marijuana recently.Pryzbilla is not easily replaced.Pryzbilla is a true 7footer who rebounds and plays defense.Yes Oden will replace him in the starting lineup but we in Portland see him as a valuable piece.He will be a mentor to Oden while Oden learns the NBA game and he will anchor the second units defense.Also imagine a last possesion ahead by one or two.Portland puts on the floor a lineup of Oden,Pryzbilla,Aldridge ,Roy and a defensive player at point.Not going to score inside very often vs that lineup
Yes 38%from 3 is average for a perimeter player.Portland this past season had FOUR(including Blake)shoot that % or better with several more shooting close to that %.include Fernandez as a good possibility to equal that if not better


I could make cases for every one of those teams I mentioned.  But because I'm tired right now and am about to go to sleep, I'll just mention one of the possible trades with the Clips.  Hinrich, Gordon and Nocioni for Maggette (sign-and-trade) and the #7 pick.  The Clippers need a point guard.  They also need to get value for Maggette, who is about to bolt.  Maggette is from Chicago, wants to play there and would be a great complement to Rose.  That trade would give the Clips a new backcourt and more depth by moving Mobley to the bench and having Nocioni backup both Thorton and Brand.
Logged

Drexler-Roy
All-Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3716



« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2008, 06:22:13 am »

Phiboy per 48 min stats are a losing argument as a player who plays limited minutes looks better.BTW how many fouls does Diop get per 48
Mutombo loves playing in Houston and was planning on retiring but came back for team loyalty.If you want to sign Kwame Brown go right ahead as Laker fans will laugh their a$$es off.Mihm hasn't played in TWO YEARS due to injuries.Even if now healthy what does he have left?
 Hinrich will not neccesarily shoot better 3pt% in Portland pure speculation on your part.Nor was he top 10 in assists.His assist to turnover ration was an average 2.88 to 1.Not bad but not great.Named one year defense SECOND TEAM.Not what I consider All League D
 I do not fight accquiring him just the price you are asking
Greenwing the Clippers drafted Al Thornton last year and see him as their sf of the future.Why would they want Nocioni?They can also trade Magette in a separate trade and get more for him(hell I could see a Webster&13with filler swap for him alone putting Webster at the two and drafting another bigman)If your arguments for the other teams are just as good I think my argument is more than solid
Logged

Greenwing wrote
Finally, I'm going to state this right now.  The Bulls will have a better record next season that the Portland Trailblazers.
Portland record 54-28
Chicago record 41-41
Jason Rubin
a.k.a. greenwing
MVP
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10809



WWW
« Reply #72 on: June 08, 2008, 07:32:01 am »

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Phiboy per 48 min stats are a losing argument as a player who plays limited minutes looks better.BTW how many fouls does Diop get per 48
Mutombo loves playing in Houston and was planning on retiring but came back for team loyalty.If you want to sign Kwame Brown go right ahead as Laker fans will laugh their a$$es off.Mihm hasn't played in TWO YEARS due to injuries.Even if now healthy what does he have left?
 Hinrich will not neccesarily shoot better 3pt% in Portland pure speculation on your part.Nor was he top 10 in assists.His assist to turnover ration was an average 2.88 to 1.Not bad but not great.Named one year defense SECOND TEAM.Not what I consider All League D
 I do not fight accquiring him just the price you are asking
Greenwing the Clippers drafted Al Thornton last year and see him as their sf of the future.Why would they want Nocioni?They can also trade Magette in a separate trade and get more for him(hell I could see a Webster&13with filler swap for him alone putting Webster at the two and drafting another bigman)If your arguments for the other teams are just as good I think my argument is more than solid


Look, yes, Webster is young and there's room for improvement.  But as a starter who was averaging near 30 mpg, his PER was NOT good.  And you wonder why Aldridge has been averaging as much as he has?  Webster is a big part of making Aldridge look better on paper.

He was a 10-4 guy who, if he had averaged 36 mpg, would have been a 13.5-5 guy with basically no intangibles.  You know who was statistically better and around the same who used to start at that position?  That's right, Viktor Khryapa.  And people thought that he had a lot of potential giving paying time, too.  Khryapa was so good that he ended up being the backup of th backup of the backup of the backup on the Bulls.  He was behind Deng, Nocioni, Thomas and Sefolosha in the rotation in Chicago.  And he was technically better - or, to be fair, at least on the same level - as Martell Webster.

If you think for a second that Webster, the 13th pick in the draft and filler for Corey Maggette is a better deal than Hinrich, Gordon and Nocioni (who would be the Clips' sixth man) for Maggette and their pick, then you have quite a few screws loose in that whacky brain of yours.
Logged

Drexler-Roy
All-Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3716



« Reply #73 on: June 08, 2008, 08:32:40 am »

Greenwing how much are you proposing paying Magette?It would have to be at least $20million per or your trade does not work or add more player from clippers end.As I said earlier Clippers are,in all probability, looking to rebuild for the future and will value young potential more than experienced but topped out.Webster is only 21 and is improving rapidly.Remember when proposing your trades such things as salcap and the other teams needs and wants.What you think is value they may not see as value and what you consider lacking value may have value to them
Logged

Greenwing wrote
Finally, I'm going to state this right now.  The Bulls will have a better record next season that the Portland Trailblazers.
Portland record 54-28
Chicago record 41-41
Jason Rubin
a.k.a. greenwing
MVP
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10809



WWW
« Reply #74 on: June 08, 2008, 09:35:40 am »

Quote from: "Drexler-Roy"
Greenwing how much are you proposing paying Magette?It would have to be at least $20million per or your trade does not work or add more player from clippers end.As I said earlier Clippers are,in all probability, looking to rebuild for the future and will value young potential more than experienced but topped out.Webster is only 21 and is improving rapidly.Remember when proposing your trades such things as salcap and the other teams needs and wants.What you think is value they may not see as value and what you consider lacking value may have value to them


Look, I'm the first person who talks about salary cap issues and salaries matching when it comes to trade.  Go read my previous posts in all sorts of threads on this board.  I know the rules when it comes to trades.  The proposal that I was talking about was a rough one.  If you really want to match salaries and such, you add Shaun Livingston to the Bulls.  As it stands the trade mentioned would have Maggette earning 18 mil a year.  You add Livingston, and that number goes down to roughly 12 million a year.  For a guy in his prime looking to make big bucks, that's more than fair.
Logged

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 8   Go Up
 
 
Jump to: