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[)-Wa[)3
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« on: July 19, 2008, 06:08:03 pm »

Miami Heat
Sends:
 - Shawn Marion
 - Udonis Haslem

Receives:
 - 09 First Round Pick Seattle
 - 09 First Round Pick New York
 - Donyell Marshall
 - Chris Wilcox
 - Earl Watson
 - Quentin Richardson

Denver Nuggets
Sends:
 - Carmelo Anthony
 - J.R Smith
 - Kenyon Martin

Receives:
 - Shawn Marion
 - Zach Randolph
 - Nate Robinson

New York Knicks
Sends:
 - Jamal Crawford
 - Zach Randolph
 - O9 First Round Draft Pick
 - Quentin Richardson

Receives:
 - Carmelo Anthony
 - Kenyon Martin
 - J.R Smith

Oklahoma City
Sends:
 - Donyell Marshall
 - Earl Watson
 - Chris Wilcox
 - 09 First Round Draft Pick

Receives:
 - Jamal Crawford
 - Udonis Haslem
 - Steven Hunter

Line-ups & Reasons:

Miami Heat

PG: Mario Chalmers or Brandon Jennings/ Marcus Banks
SG: Dwayne Wade / Daequan Cook
SF: James Jones or Earl Clark/ Dorrell Wright
PF: Michael Beasley / Chris Wilcox
C: Hasheem Thabeet / Mark Blount

Reasons:
Miami needs to bring in talent anyway possible to keep D-Wade around. Chalmers, Wade, Jones, and Beasley can hold up the fort until next year's draft where they can finally fill every position. By drafting Thabeet, we get a very good defensive center who I think will improve every year. He may even make an all-star game or two if he develops an offensive game. We can also pick either Jennings or Clark as our other draft choice. If Chalmers doesn't pan out, we can pick Jennings to fill our PG role. If Chalmers does as well in the NBA as he did in summer league, than we can fill our SF position with Earl Clark and have James Jones come off the bench as our 6th man.

Denver Nuggets

PG: Anthony Carter
SG: Allen Iverson
SF: Shawn Marion / Kleiza
PF: Zach Randolph
C: Nene

Reasons:
It's become evident that Carmelo isn't going to win anything in Denver other than the 2nd most 1st round knockouts, right behind T-Mac. Bringing in Marion, they add defense and every intangible that Melo didn't bring, other than scoring, but being one of the highest scoring teams in the league, I don't think they'll miss a few less ppg. Plus, Randolph should give them 20/10 with the no defense that they seem to love to play.

New York Knicks

PG: Chris Duhon / Nate Robinson
SG: J.R Smith
SF: Carmelo Anthony/ Danilo Gallinari
PF: Kenyon Martin / David Lee or vice versa
C: Eddy Curry /

Reasons:
They lose Crawford, but they get a better version in Melo. They also, finally, get rid of Randolph, enough said lol. They lose their draft pick, but New York needs help now, not another draft pick to ruin. Melo and Martin can help them make a playoff run now. J.R Smith is also a very good/underrated shooting gaurd who will really help put New York into the play-off race. Also, I think they should keep Marbury until his contract runs out so they can sign a big-time free agent. Maybe even pick-up Crawford again via 2009 free agency. A few nice names: Unrestricted: Bibby, Crawford, Okur, Boozer, Andre Miller, Odom, Artest, Rasheed Wallace, Kobe (doubtful lol), Nash, Allen Iverson; Restricted: Bynum, Felton, Granger, McCants, Charlie V, David Lee. Plus, bringing in Melo to New York would do wonders for the fans.

Oklahoma City

PG: Russell Westbrook
SG: Jamal Crawford /
SF: Kevin Durant / D. J White
PF: Jeff Green / Udonis Haslem
C: Nick Collison

Reasons:
Oklahoma is a rebuilding team and getting a very good player in Crawford, excellent back-up in Udonis, should turn them from a rebuilding team to a playoff caliber team. I don't think Oklahoma wants to take another dip into the lottery to see if they can find another player who might possibly put them over the top, but a player who can really help them now. Crawford put up all-star numbers last year and will really help Durant with the scoring, rather than put all the pressure on him. We all know what Smith can do off the bench and he also provides much needed scoring. Udonis is an amazing back-up PF and will provide a veteran presence, defense, hustle, and every intangible a young team needs.

* My Personal Thoughts*
Before everyone burns me for Denver, I'll admit I think they lose a little too much, but they need to make a move. Under Denver's circumstances Marion > Melo. Randolph provides what Melo provided anyway, bad shots, 20+ points and 10 rebounds, ball-hog, etc. Plus, they can sign a Max player if they decide not to resign Marion.

Miami may be giving up too much for a chance at the future. If Thabeet and Jennings/Clark pan out, Miami is in for a few championships, but, if not, say bye-bye to D-Wade. It's a risk I feel the Heat should take. Plus, they get expirings for the big 2010 offseason to sign D-Wade and another Max Player.

New York needs to bring in an impact player now! They need someone to cheer for and Melo is an upgrade over Crawford. They're getting rid of Randolph, which should, hopefully, turn Curry back into the 20/10 player he once was. But, this team might still be a little too unstable, mentally, to make a run for the playoffs.

Oklahoma loses little, not including the pick, but gains much more back. I think they are the clear-cut winners of this trade.

I changed the trade around a little bit, J.R Smith now goes to New York instead of Oklahoma and Robinson goes to Denver
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shangrila
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2008, 06:23:58 pm »

how did you turn zach randolph and jamal crawford into carmelo anthony? :shock:
but aite i'll go through it
    miami: none of the guys there really do anything for them. i can see the attraction of getting picks, adding players but there is no way oklahoma would leave their pick unprotected and the knicks pick is owed to utah so you wouldn't get either. miami has also said they want to compete now and while some of those guys bring depth none of them really push them over the top.

    denver:sorry man but they get raped. carmelo is their franchise and while getting a defensive player is good in principal giving up their franchise isn't worth it, especially when they take back zach randolph's ugly contract. if they move anyone it will be iverson because that team they end up with isn't going to contend now or in the future imo

    knicks:they get way too good of a deal. to turn randolph's bad contract and crawford into carmelo is nothing short of a miracle.

    oklahoma:its alrite i guess. haslem is young enough to still be competitive when durant is tearing up the league but both crawford and JR smith play the same position as kevin (since im guessing they want to keep playing him at SG). they get back better then they give but so it's good for them

nice idea but denver does get really screwed here
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[)-Wa[)3
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2008, 06:29:21 pm »

Quote from: "shangrila"
how did you turn zach randolph and jamal crawford into carmelo anthony? :shock:
but aite i'll go through it
    miami: none of the guys there really do anything for them. i can see the attraction of getting picks, adding players but there is no way oklahoma would leave their pick unprotected and the knicks pick is owed to utah so you wouldn't get either. miami has also said they want to compete now and while some of those guys bring depth none of them really push them over the top.

    denver:sorry man but they get raped. carmelo is their franchise and while getting a defensive player is good in principal giving up their franchise isn't worth it, especially when they take back zach randolph's ugly contract. if they move anyone it will be iverson because that team they end up with isn't going to contend now or in the future imo

    knicks:they get way too good of a deal. to turn randolph's bad contract and crawford into carmelo is nothing short of a miracle.

    oklahoma:its alrite i guess. haslem is young enough to still be competitive when durant is tearing up the league but both crawford and JR smith play the same position as kevin (since im guessing they want to keep playing him at SG). they get back better then they give but so it's good for them


The thing with Miami is, there aren't really any good defensive center FA's next off-season so this will really help them out at the center position. Plus, they're already in contention for the playoffs, this move could either put them over the top, or not. Sometimes you need to take risks.

The thing about Denver is, I think Melo is highly overrated. He is a great, great offensive threat, but he has very bad basketball IQ, he's not a very good team player, he takes bad shots, he is one of the worst defensive players in the league (I'd put him in a group with Mark Blount), and he's not a winner. I think they're getting enough back for Melo. Marion is a winner, a leader, a very good defender, and can help bring this team together, plus Randolph fits Denver's style. He can thrive in Denver and might just fit well with them. He scores and rebounds well. I think they get enough back for Melo.


Edit:
*Also, I think Kevin Durant will move to the SF next season once he puts on some strength. Crawford and Smith would ease right into the SG position and Durant could move over to the SF position once that happens.*
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shangrila
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 06:40:49 pm »

Quote from: "[)-Wa[)3"
The thing with Miami is, there aren't really any good defensive center FA's next off-season so this will really help them out at the center position. Plus, they're already in contention for the playoffs, this move could either put them over the top, or not. Sometimes you need to take risks.

The thing about Denver is, I think Melo is highly overrated. He is a great, great offensive threat, but he has very bad basketball IQ, he's not a very good team player, he takes bad shots, he is one of the worst defensive players in the league (I'd put him in a group with Mark Blount), and he's not a winner. I think they're getting enough back for Melo. Marion is a winner, a leader, a very good defender, and can help bring this team together, plus Randolph fits Denver's style. He can thrive in Denver and might just fit well with them. He scores and rebounds well. I think they get enough back for Melo.


Edit:
*Also, I think Kevin Durant will move to the SF next season once he puts on some strength. Crawford and Smith would ease right into the SG position and Durant could move over to the SF position once that happens.*

that's fair enough about miami but for what oklahoma gets back i doubt they give you an unprotected first which is the only way you could get both jennings and thabeet. as for denver, they don't get enough back. i understand what your saying and even if you think he is overrated you can't deny that he's their franchise player and he's still young. it's too early to give up on him
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[)-Wa[)3
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2008, 06:45:44 pm »

I just think Melo needs a change of scenery. I don't know though, I just don't think very highly of Melo and I think Marion & Randolph would be fine for him. Remember, when Miami got Marion there were trade talks of Marion straight up for Melo? They're gaining a lot more than just Marion in this trade. The only reason why people think Randolph is so bad is because he is so highly overpaid. If he was paid around 8 million a year, teams would love to have him. It's just his contract makes him so undesirable. I just think he would fit perfectly in Denver and Marion would provide the leadership and maturity to bring the team together come playoff time.

*Also, I don't think Oklahoma would complain about the pick. Crawford and Haslem is a duo most likely better than whatever they'll get through the draft. Crawford put up all-star numbers last year and can really take the pressure off Durant. Haslem is one of the best back-up PF's in the league and can help teach Jeff Green throughout the season, sort of like what Allen, Pierce, and Garnett did for Rondo. Taken, the Boston trio is all-stars, but Haslem is also very experienced and will help Green along. If oklahoma city's draft pick is better than Crawford and Haslem, I'll be surprised.
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LordLeoshes
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2008, 10:03:54 pm »

Miami does not want to be in the lotto this year, so NO.
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2008, 10:17:34 pm »

What makes you think they'll be in the lottery? Wilcox is still a pretty damn good player and could play the 5 position for us rather than Blount. With Chalmers, Wade, Jones, Beasley, and Wilcox, I definitely think we'll make the playoff's. You always seem to look at the present rather than the future. Sometimes you have to take risks. If next year we get knocked out 1st round of the playoff's it's no big deal because we're losing our draft pick to minny anyway. We can really, really help this team out if we do this trade; plus, we get expirings for the 2010 offseason. I'm not saying it will happen, but what if we do sign Wade & LeBron. Our line-up would be:

PG: Chalmers or Jennings
SG: Wade and Cook
SF: LeBron / Clark or Jones
PF: Beasley
C: Thabeet

That's a dynasty no matter what way you look at it.
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LordLeoshes
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2008, 10:57:45 pm »

Quote from: "[)-Wa[)3"
What makes you think they'll be in the lottery? Wilcox is still a pretty damn good player and could play the 5 position for us rather than Blount. With Chalmers, Wade, Jones, Beasley, and Wilcox, I definitely think we'll make the playoff's. You always seem to look at the present rather than the future. Sometimes you have to take risks. If next year we get knocked out 1st round of the playoff's it's no big deal because we're losing our draft pick to minny anyway. We can really, really help this team out if we do this trade; plus, we get expirings for the 2010 offseason. I'm not saying it will happen, but what if we do sign Wade & LeBron. Our line-up would be:

PG: Chalmers or Jennings
SG: Wade and Cook
SF: LeBron / Clark or Jones
PF: Beasley
C: Thabeet

That's a dynasty no matter what way you look at it.



My point is that i rather have Marion, & Haslem over any player that you have coming this way. It would be a down grade in talent.
I do not want to trade Marion, unless we get a legit allstar in return.

You have Thabeet on next years team. 1st he sucks, 2nd is we don't have a 1st next year, unless we pick in the top 10. & that would mean that we sucked, & was 1 of the 10 worst teams in the NBA.
so what is it, Do you wan't to make the playoffs, or suck, & get a top 10 pick? Cause, the picks we would be getting would be protected to the top 15. & 16 & up is not worth losing Marion, Haslem, & having another horrible year.
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2008, 11:14:01 pm »

Quote from: "LordLeoshes"
Quote from: "[)-Wa[)3"
What makes you think they'll be in the lottery? Wilcox is still a pretty damn good player and could play the 5 position for us rather than Blount. With Chalmers, Wade, Jones, Beasley, and Wilcox, I definitely think we'll make the playoff's. You always seem to look at the present rather than the future. Sometimes you have to take risks. If next year we get knocked out 1st round of the playoff's it's no big deal because we're losing our draft pick to minny anyway. We can really, really help this team out if we do this trade; plus, we get expirings for the 2010 offseason. I'm not saying it will happen, but what if we do sign Wade & LeBron. Our line-up would be:

PG: Chalmers or Jennings
SG: Wade and Cook
SF: LeBron / Clark or Jones
PF: Beasley
C: Thabeet

That's a dynasty no matter what way you look at it.



My point is that i rather have Marion, & Haslem over any player that you have coming this way. It would be a down grade in talent.
I do not want to trade Marion, unless we get a legit allstar in return.


And I understand that, but at this point in Marion's career, we're not going to get a young all-star. We're either getting expirings, draft picks, a couple good players, or 18 million off the books. Now, if Okafor is a FA next off-season, I'm all about signing him and somebody else with the rest of our MLE, but chances are Charlotte isn't letting him go. It's just a simple fact that we're not getting a young all-star in return for Marion. We can't get Josh Smith, I doubt we can get Gerald Wallace, we aren't getting a good, young center aka Bynum, and there really isn't anybody out their. I don't want Odom!! The best offer we can throw out there is Marion for Artest and Miller, and that's a little bit of a stretch. I'll admit, this trade is a stretch for Miami, but what could be had in return could makes us a dynasty.

Thabeet: First off, he's a very good defensive player. He can block shots and he's extremely tall. He fits the Heat perfectly due to our needs. Plus, an extra year in college will do wonders for him. Did i mention he's 7'3"? He's going to be in the lottery and a potential top 5 pick. He's just what the Heat needs and, any offensive weapons learned, will just be another plus to his resume.

The Expiring Contracts: The three players I gave the Heat all expire before or in the 2010 offseason. We'll have like three players under contract in that off-season and can sign two max players. A Wade and LeBron duo would destroy the league, but we'll also have Beasley and Chalmers helping out and they're far from scrubs.

The other draft pick: I was just giving options to draft, but I'm sure many teams would be willing to deal players for a high draft pick. We can get a nice, young talent via draft or trade.

You just have to look at my trade long-term for the Heat. Yes, maybe next season won't go as well as we might hope, but it's not like we're winning the chip anyway.
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2008, 11:21:12 pm »

Quote
You have Thabeet on next years team. 1st he sucks, 2nd is we don't have a 1st next year, unless we pick in the top 10. & that would mean that we sucked, & was 1 of the 10 worst teams in the NBA.
so what is it, Do you wan't to make the playoffs, or suck, & get a top 10 pick? Cause, the picks we would be getting would be protected to the top 15. & 16 & up is not worth losing Marion, Haslem, & having another horrible year.


Do you even pay attention to the trade? We received to 1st round picks from New York and Seattle. 2nd, by your comments in the past and now, I'm pretty sure you don't even watch college basketball. Thabeet may not have been an offensive weapon last year, but that's not what the Heat need. We need a defensive threat at the C position. Plus, an extra year at college will really do the trick for him. He'll develop more of an offensive game, acquire more basketball IQ, etc etc. Plus, if you haven't noticed, the Heat organization does a fantastic job developing young bigs. They know what they're doing when it comes to helping them offensively and defensively and we also have a great defensive coach in Zo who can also teach him a few offensive moves. Since when are the Heat in the contention for a chip next year anyway? Yes! we made the playoffs only to lose in the first round, Marion's contract expires and there aren't any good-looking FA's out there the Heat could want thanks to Charlotte resigning Emeka. Would you stop looking at the short-term for my trade and look at it long-term. How can you tell me a line-up of:

PG: Chalmers
SG: Wade
SF: LeBron
PF: Beasley
C: Thabeet

won't be a dynasty? You're trippin.
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tong
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2008, 03:06:16 am »

lol i love how presumptuous you are. how the hell do you expect to get lebron AND wade?!
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shangrila
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2008, 03:44:02 am »

aite i'm only going to say this one more time. you can't trade the knick's 2009 or 2010 picks
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2008, 04:41:40 am »

I rather see us winning then failing than sucking then failing, we wouldnt rebuild and restart in 2010, we will do it NOW to make sure D-wade has a good time in the current being and cap space in 10.

No thanks.
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2008, 08:55:08 am »

Quote from: "shangrila"
aite i'm only going to say this one more time. you can't trade the knick's 2009 or 2010 picks

Yeah, I gave up trying to say that all the time.
That 2009 Draft Pick will most likely be the Knicks, however they won't have the rights to trade it until Draft Night.
2010, we're properly fuked with our pick.
Oh well.
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LordLeoshes
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2008, 05:24:45 pm »

And I understand that, but at this point in Marion's career, we're not going to get a young all-star. We're either getting expirings, draft picks, a couple good players, or 18 million off the books. Now, if Okafor is a FA next off-season, I'm all about signing him and somebody else with the rest of our MLE, but chances are Charlotte isn't letting him go. It's just a simple fact that we're not getting a young all-star in return for Marion. We can't get Josh Smith, I doubt we can get Gerald Wallace, we aren't getting a good, young center aka Bynum, and there really isn't anybody out their. I don't want Odom!! The best offer we can throw out there is Marion for Artest and Miller, and that's a little bit of a stretch. I'll admit, this trade is a stretch for Miami, but what could be had in return could makes us a dynasty.


The thing is we don't need to trade him. he fits perfectly with what we want, at SF for this year. Next year we use are cap and sign whoever we want.



Thabeet: First off, he's a very good defensive player. He can block shots and he's extremely tall. He fits the Heat perfectly due to our needs. Plus, an extra year in college will do wonders for him. Did i mention he's 7'3"? He's going to be in the lottery and a potential top 5 pick. He's just what the Heat needs and, any offensive weapons learned, will just be another plus to his resume.


I agree, & it was my mistake. I was thinking about Hebuert( or something like that) from the george town.


The Expiring Contracts: The three players I gave the Heat all expire before or in the 2010 offseason. We'll have like three players under contract in that off-season and can sign two max players. A Wade and LeBron duo would destroy the league, but we'll also have Beasley and Chalmers helping out and they're far from scrubs


All that is cool with me. I just like the players we have now better then the ones you have coming in.


The other draft pick: I was just giving options to draft, but I'm sure many teams would be willing to deal players for a high draft pick. We can get a nice, young talent via draft or trade


If they are at least in the top 10, then it wont be that bad. But like i've sead to you, i don,t think they will give us anything under 16.


You just have to look at my trade long-term for the Heat. Yes, maybe next season won't go as well as we might hope, but it's not like we're winning the chip anyway.


But Pat will not just give up on the season. He want's us to make the playoffs. & if we do this trade, we won't.
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Every tyrant in the 20th century began his tyranny by first confiscating guns, & gold from the people over whom he ruled over.

 Hitler, Chaves, Castro, Quadafi, Stalin, Idi Amin, Ma Tse-tung, pol pot, & Kim Jong-il would all agree that gun control works!
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