Zander
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« on: November 24, 2008, 01:02:07 am » |
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Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner
Tyson Chandler for JR Smith and PJ Brown
JR Smith for Howard Eisley and two 2nd rounders
LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khyrapa
Rodney Carney for Thabo Sefolosha
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TradeMark
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 02:41:48 am » |
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Carney hasn't developed like I thought he would. At this point, I'd say Thabo was a better pick. Much better defender and passer than Carney.
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Derrick Rose on wearing #1: "That was my AAU number when I first started playing. I was the No. 1 draft pick. And hopefully I'll be No. 1 at my position."
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Zander
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 06:17:05 am » |
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Carney hasn't developed like I thought he would. At this point, I'd say Thabo was a better pick. Much better defender and passer than Carney. Seriously? Carney has shown loads more talent than Sefolosha. It didn't occur to me that anyone might disagree with that. I guess ignore that one and look at the others. |
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Jason Rubin
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 09:26:28 am » |
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Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner
Tyson Chandler for JR Smith and PJ Brown
JR Smith for Howard Eisley and two 2nd rounders
LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khyrapa
Rodney Carney for Thabo Sefolosha The Brand trade was done by Jerry Krause. That was one reason why he was fired. So that move is irrelevant now. The Tyson Chandler trade made sense at the time because Chandler was absolutely horrid his last season as a Bull. And Skiles never used him right, anyway. So you can't blame Paxson for that one. The JR Smith trade may seem dumb, but he had no place on our roster when we acquired him. So trading him at the time wasn't that bad - especially since we basically traded JR Smith for Aaron Gray and Omer Asik. I'll take the latter two any day. The jury is still out on the Thomas/Aldridge trade. I still think Tyrus needs another year before we really know if he has the potential to break out and be what he was advertised. If he does, it was a fantastic trade because Thomas has more potential than Aldridge. If not, it was a bad trade. But the worst part of the trade was that Khryapa was never used right. So the Bulls didn't get much value there. The Sefolosha/Carney trade was excellent for the Bulls. Thabo is definitely better than Carney. Although Carney is no slouch. |
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Zander
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 11:26:46 am » |
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I just mean they slowly turned Elton Brand into Skinner, PJ Brown, Howard Eisley, and two 2nd rounders, downgrading on each trade.
Seriously? No way is the jury still out on the Aldridge Tyrus trade. OBVIOUSLY the Bulls got the worse end. It only remains just how bad that end ends up being.
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ChettheJet
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 02:15:47 pm » |
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I don't discount the Brand trade, which was idiotic at best because it resulted in the Bulls drafting TWO high school players while giving up a solid player and citizen who could still be the anchor of the team if they would have kept him. Chandler and Curry. One would have been acceptable but to bank that much of the future on two kids who needed to mature as both people and players, both needing to still learn the game while being thrust into a major market, both needing to adapt to life on their own in the NBA, on a losing franchise that just won 6 championships. I'd still scream at Krause if I saw him.
Trading Chandler made sense because he still had not developed into a reliable player on either end of the floor and they had spent enough time and money trying to teach him. It was more along the lines of the Ben Wallace trade there comes a point when you've got to admit you missed, cut your losses and change the players.
I don't know how people still naively think Thomas Aldridge was a trade. The Bulls decided they wanted Thomas, they drafted Aldridge for Portland with the understanding that Portland would draft Thomas and trade him and Victor to the Bulls. The Bulls did not draft Aldridge and suddenly decide they made the wrong choice and make a trade, they wanted Thomas all along and ended up with an extra player for making a simple move. Did they end up with the wrong guy in that draft, that's pitifully obvious now.
The same applies to Carney and Thabo, the Bulls wanted Thabo so they made a deal to draft Carney for Philly and then trade the two. That's how teams move up in the draft to get who they want so he isn't picked right before they get a chance or down in the draft to get the same player but get another pick.
JR Smith is a selfish, me shoot first now and often player who was part of the trade for salary matching. Had the Bulls been able to find a team willing to take his attitude I'm sure he would have been dealt sooner. Tim Thomas falls into the same category. They really didn't need him in the front court at the time so he sat until he was bought out. He fits into some systems but the Bulls had young front court players that needed minutes so why bother losing with a vet when the kids can at least learn.
The Bulls haven't made any more or worse mistakes than other teams, and in most cases fewer at least the guys they drafted signed and showed up. Not all picks made the strides that experts see on draft night but projecting 19 year olds to what they will be when they are 25 is a guessing game. The Bulls were smart to take players who played 2+ years in college with winning programs and solid coaches who taught them the game. High schoolers and freshmen who can run and dunk and have never had to learn the game is where they have really missed.
Overall I've got a lot more confidence going forward with Paxson, he hasn't brought in a bunch of cronies from somewhere else he worked, maybe his brother. He has been cautious making deals but he has made many and makes me think he will pull the trigger when he thinks it's right not just to satisfy the calls for change.
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Zander
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 03:29:28 pm » |
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The Bulls haven't made any more or worse mistakes than other teams If they've made better moves than most teams, explain the Bulls remarkably high draft position in each of the last 10 years. 1999 - 1st 2000 - 4th 2001 - 4th 2002 - 2nd 2004 - 3rd 2006 - 2nd 2008 - 1st |
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youngrazzle7
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 04:26:18 pm » |
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Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner
Tyson Chandler for JR Smith and PJ Brown
JR Smith for Howard Eisley and two 2nd rounders
LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khyrapa
Rodney Carney for Thabo Sefolosha Only 1 I didn't care about was Carney / Thabo All the other ones were just beyond stupid and made no sense at all.... omg we got aaron gray and omar asik for jr smith lmao r u proud of that? |
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Bulls / Bills / Marlins / Noles ben gordon was a guy he trusted and always passed to when he was open. those other guys are not the kind of shooters i'm talking about, they are more mid range guys. how many times did we see rose get hinrich, deng or salmons a wide open shot and those guys would pump fake then try to step in to get a better shot and end up passing up a wide open 3 for a contested 20 footer? they are not the kind of guy's rose needs. i said when he was drafted that deng and hinrich had to go and |
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Jason Rubin
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 05:32:31 pm » |
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I just mean they slowly turned Elton Brand into Skinner, PJ Brown, Howard Eisley, and two 2nd rounders, downgrading on each trade.
Seriously? No way is the jury still out on the Aldridge Tyrus trade. OBVIOUSLY the Bulls got the worse end. It only remains just how bad that end ends up being. Spoken like a true Portland fan. |
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Jason Rubin
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 05:33:35 pm » |
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Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner
Tyson Chandler for JR Smith and PJ Brown
JR Smith for Howard Eisley and two 2nd rounders
LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khyrapa
Rodney Carney for Thabo Sefolosha Only 1 I didn't care about was Carney / Thabo All the other ones were just beyond stupid and made no sense at all.... omg we got aaron gray and omar asik for jr smith lmao r u proud of that? As a matter of fact, I am. |
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youngrazzle7
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 05:40:54 pm » |
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smh......
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Bulls / Bills / Marlins / Noles ben gordon was a guy he trusted and always passed to when he was open. those other guys are not the kind of shooters i'm talking about, they are more mid range guys. how many times did we see rose get hinrich, deng or salmons a wide open shot and those guys would pump fake then try to step in to get a better shot and end up passing up a wide open 3 for a contested 20 footer? they are not the kind of guy's rose needs. i said when he was drafted that deng and hinrich had to go and |
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BteamBomber
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 07:13:04 pm » |
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Derrick Rose > than ANY player we've had a legitimate chance to get in the last 10 years. If we can shore up cap room for '10 and get even one superstar next to him, we'll be better off than with any of those guys.
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"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics, even if you win you're STILL retarded"
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Mild Sauce
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 10:15:21 pm » |
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The Bulls haven't made any more or worse mistakes than other teams If they've made better moves than most teams, explain the Bulls remarkably high draft position in each of the last 10 years. 1999 - 1st 2000 - 4th 2001 - 4th 2002 - 2nd 2004 - 3rd 2006 - 2nd 2008 - 1st Remember that in 2006 that 2nd pick was one they got from the Knicks in the Eddy Curry trade. Then notice that there's a gap there between 2004 and 2008, and they didn't have a whole lot of talent before that 2004 draft. Don't forget about the Jay Williams accident either, that hurt them quite a bit, in fact, they wouldn't have had as high of a pick in 2004 if it wasn't for that. |
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Zander
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 11:47:02 pm » |
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I just mean they slowly turned Elton Brand into Skinner, PJ Brown, Howard Eisley, and two 2nd rounders, downgrading on each trade.
Seriously? No way is the jury still out on the Aldridge Tyrus trade. OBVIOUSLY the Bulls got the worse end. It only remains just how bad that end ends up being. Spoken like a true Portland fan. I think you'd be the only one voting for Tyrus if I posted that trade with a poll on it. Shall I? Or are you afraid that it's not that I'm a Portland fan, but that you're a Bulls fan? |
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shangrila
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2008, 11:53:54 pm » |
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The Bulls haven't made any more or worse mistakes than other teams If they've made better moves than most teams, explain the Bulls remarkably high draft position in each of the last 10 years. 1999 - 1st 2000 - 4th 2001 - 4th 2002 - 2nd 2004 - 3rd 2006 - 2nd 2008 - 1st Remember that in 2006 that 2nd pick was one they got from the Knicks in the Eddy Curry trade. Then notice that there's a gap there between 2004 and 2008, and they didn't have a whole lot of talent before that 2004 draft. Don't forget about the Jay Williams accident either, that hurt them quite a bit, in fact, they wouldn't have had as high of a pick in 2004 if it wasn't for that. Atleast the Bulls made a good deal with the Knicks. Didn't they also swap picks with them in 2007? Can't complain about that. But it is alittle weird that the Bulls have had so much love in the last 10 years. I doubt many teams would have had that many high picks while being considered contenders for a number of seasons during that time. |
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