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Author Topic: GM Game 6.1 [Transactions]  (Read 440581 times)
zunami23
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« Reply #4365 on: April 17, 2009, 06:04:24 pm »

Well you know who to trade Randolph to now. If Boogie likes him better than Bosh, you'll probably get the most value from him.
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joshfarc
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« Reply #4366 on: April 17, 2009, 06:04:43 pm »

They would if you had him coming off the bench or something. He would be pretty pissed if he had to do that.

Yea Z-Bo would likely have to fuuuuck you up physically.  You better watch your back Chellis.  Zbo doesn't like being traded...or maybe he does.

Selb: I get your point.  I would take Bosh over Zbo pretty quickly, I am not arguing that at all.


All I pointed out is that one stat you used(points per 100 possessions).  Why can you just dismiss guys like Carmelo Anthony who have nearly identical numbers to ZBo in that regard yet they are not a detriment?

I agree with you that the specific stat is quite useful, and only helps in my analysis of Melo not really being as great as some people think.  But I doubt he's really a negative or detriment to have on the court, though that stat shows he is.

Luke Walton for Zbo?
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cselby
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« Reply #4367 on: April 17, 2009, 06:06:22 pm »

Melo's defensive inability is a huge detriment to the team, I never have and never will deny that. He makes up for it by being an ELITE and I mean elite, scorer and a pretty good rebounder. Actually, no, "makes up for it" is a bad term, because nothing makes up for crappy D, but I think you get where I'm going.
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« Reply #4368 on: April 17, 2009, 06:10:03 pm »

Melo's defensive inability is a huge detriment to the team, I never have and never will deny that. He makes up for it by being an ELITE and I mean elite, scorer and a pretty good rebounder. Actually, no, "makes up for it" is a bad term, because nothing makes up for crappy D, but I think you get where I'm going.

Yea, but does it even make up for it?  His numbers show he gives up more points than he scores while on the court.  How is that a good thing?  I am with you on the Zbo stat being a detriment, because I use this stat quite often.  But thats that, I am more interesting in this Melo stat now, haha.

Melo gives up more points than his team scores while he's on the court.  That HAS to be a negative doesn't it?  It proves his defense is not entirely madbe up for by his great offense......right?
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cselby
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« Reply #4369 on: April 17, 2009, 06:13:44 pm »

Right. That's why I didn't want to use the term "makes up for."

Statistics are a double-edged sword; they can shine up a player to make him look like a God and at the next turn they can make him look like a BUM. Which is why we need to watch the games ourselves to find the medium and determine if said player is good or not. Watching Melo, I see a guy who tears apart defenses...literally makes them cry, with his jab-step, blow by ability and shooting ability. He is a guy who teams plan there whole defensive gameplans around. I see Randolph as a guy who takes horrible shots, not in the flow of the offense and doesn't even hustle down the court let alone play defense. He can easily be stopped, and is likely not the first guy the other team will worry about.

The one similarity is that...they both concede more points than they score...but Melo is better in just about every other area.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 06:24:30 pm by cselby » Logged



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Jonathan
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« Reply #4370 on: April 17, 2009, 06:34:05 pm »

cselby u blocked me in PMs or u just ignore them?
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STAT City
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« Reply #4371 on: April 17, 2009, 06:38:53 pm »

so lemme get something straight? the stat explains that while melo is on the court, his team gives up sooo many points. now, that can be misleading. starters play majority of the game right? who else is going to have the majority of the points scored on them, the starters or the 2nd unit?

if someone makes a shot over dahntay jones and melo is on the other side of the court, its still gonna count against melo. do yall follow what im gettin at?
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dalebrambo
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« Reply #4372 on: April 17, 2009, 06:42:04 pm »

yeah i follow and agree with you about the stat, but melo still plays no D sorry...
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joshfarc
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« Reply #4373 on: April 17, 2009, 07:45:40 pm »

so lemme get something straight? the stat explains that while melo is on the court, his team gives up sooo many points. now, that can be misleading. starters play majority of the game right? who else is going to have the majority of the points scored on them, the starters or the 2nd unit?

if someone makes a shot over dahntay jones and melo is on the other side of the court, its still gonna count against melo. do yall follow what im gettin at?

I think we all know what your getting at.  I don't think anyone is saying this single stat can define a player or anything.......

But it's per100 possessions, so when Melo is out of the game, and the 2nd unit is in(even though they will play less possessions) they usually give up more points than a starting 5 will(per possession that is).  So that in itself makes it a double-edged sword.  Melo is playing with the best unit on his team most of the time, which is something to consider.

Obviously Melo is a great player and like I said he should be on the court no matter what.  But this still helps give some type of objectivity to his defensive inabilities, that's pretty much the point of the stat; and to compare their offensive effect on a game compared to their defense. 

But like you pointed out; Melo plays a huge amount of minutes with different sets of players around him throughout a game, but it still has validity in what it says.

I wonder what Melo's +/- is for this season, as a whole in the game and also just his +/- at the SF position for Denver.  Either way he is a stud and nobody is saying he's a negative to have on the court, even if the stat suggests it.  But it does lend some credit to his lack of great D.
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joshfarc
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« Reply #4374 on: April 17, 2009, 09:07:27 pm »

Indiana sends:
Kevin Martin $8,760,335(5)
Antonio McDyess $4,390,000(4)
John Brockman $457,588(1+TO)

Phoenix sends:
Joe Johnson $14,976,754(1)
Steve Novak $2,000,000 (3)


then

Phoenix sends:
John Brockman $457,588(1+TO) using vet minimum exception

Indiana:
Future considerations
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Prime Time
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« Reply #4375 on: April 17, 2009, 09:11:54 pm »

^ I like it for Indiana. Posters in hoopshype think of Kevin Martin as a one dimensional streaky shooter (which he is Cheesy). Take the, "Top 10 Current NBA Shooting Guard," list. Joe Johnson was ranked 4th while Kevin Martin was ranked 8 (I think).

But... Antonio McDyess is a very solid pick up for the Nets. I think that covers most of the talent lost from the downgrade from Joe Johnson to Kevin Martin.
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« Reply #4376 on: April 17, 2009, 09:21:50 pm »

Wow. Nice trade Farc.
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dalebrambo
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« Reply #4377 on: April 17, 2009, 10:03:05 pm »

Joe Johnson and Brandon roy is a really nice back court, i mean they are both unselfish players i think they get like 6 assists a piece and can light you up for 20+ points a game each...
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cselby
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« Reply #4378 on: April 17, 2009, 10:31:21 pm »

Joe Johnson and Brandon roy is a really nice back court, i mean they are both unselfish players i think they get like 6 assists a piece and can light you up for 20+ points a game each...

Yeah it's a nice duo to have, for sure. Both play respectable defense so it's a pretty unstoppable backcourt.
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« Reply #4379 on: April 17, 2009, 11:39:22 pm »

Good, he was asking Nate with KevMart when I had him before.
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