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Author Topic: 2009 2010 Lineups  (Read 1773 times)
ChitownBulls
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« on: January 26, 2009, 11:45:17 am »
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Were now in a four team limbo of the 7th worst team in the league....Just to name some guys in the draft that we could possibly get...Thabeet...Jordan Hill...Earl Clark...Greg Monroe...DaJaun Summers...Demar DeRozen, they probably will all go somewhere in the top 10. I say we blow this thing up and trade Deng and others to bring in somebody. I know many of you like Thabeet and Monroe and Summers. What do you think about this lineup....

Trade Deng,Gooden,Noah OR Deng,Gordon,Simmons FOR Amare, Alando Tucker OR Grant Hill

Get rid of Hughes for anything, a player and a 2nd round pick or something

Try to get something for Gordon, or just resign him, to good to just let go.

Rose,Hinrich
Thabo,Gordon
Noc, DaJaun Summers (1st rounder, Major Talent,great speed, good body control, big body at the 3)
Thomas, Jeff Adrien (2nd rounder,knows how to get it done,rebounds,tough minded player,being short hurts him)
Amare,Gray
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 11:49:58 am by ChitownBulls » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2009, 02:59:06 pm »
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I was in the blow the team up and rebuild mode before, but I think that if the Bulls are going to end up in the bottom 6-7 of the league this year, then they should get another lotto piece, and make one or two big trades to rebuild.  I think it would be wiser as we enter the year of Lebron/Wade/Bosh and others.  Let Gordon walk, let Gooden walk, then next year let Hughes walk and somehow trade either Deng or Noc for a future pick and expiring deals and the Bulls would have enough to get one of those guys.  09 is the year to get either/or in terms of who their 10 target would be.  If they land high enough in the draft to get James Harden (hey, it could happen) to play the 2, then they should draft him and work on bringing Bosh in in 2010.  If Harden is gone and Thabeet somehow falls to them, then they have to draft him and work on bringing Wade or Lebron in (Wade is more likely).  In either scenario, I'm keeping Hinrich as the 3rd guard in the rotation, because he's perfect on a championship contender off the bench (think Paxson and Kerr on the championship Bulls).  I'm also keeping both Tyrus and Noah, because if we actually do get a real big man like Thabeet, Griffin (pipe dream) or Bosh, then we'd want guys like Tyrus and Noah as the hustle defenders that can foul hard and get occasional put back dunks (plus I think Tyrus can still develop into a consistent starter, especially next to a Thabeet).  The Bulls must have a superstar next to Rose in order to win a title, but they must also have a strong core of role players in order to give that superstar the people he needs to win.  Think about how much the Celtics would have struggle in the finals last year if they didn't get big games from role players like Rondo, Perkins, Powe, House and others.  The Bulls have better versions of those guys, and with the right stars in place, they could be a force. 

My absolutely ideal 09 and 10 would be as follows-
09 - Let Gooden walk, let Gordon walk, trade Nocioni for a future lottery protected 1st and an expiring contract.  Sign a bunch of low minute veterans to 1 year deals.  Luck out and land the 3rd spot in the draft or trade up from the mid lottery to the 3rd spot and grab Thabeet.
   09 rotation
Rose/Hinrich/veteran
Thabo/Hinrich/veteran
Deng/Tyrus/veteran
Tyrus/Noah/veteran
Thabeet/Noah/Gray

That's an 8 man rotation, and with the right veteran role players as the 9th and 10th guys, they could fill out some extra minutes in order not to wear anyone out.  Very likely, that team is in the lottery again next year, but guys like Thomas, Thabo and Thabeet would get serious minutes to develop around Rose.

Then in 2010
   Sign Wade (I think Wade/Deng is better than Hinrich/Lebron, just barely) and THEN sign re-sign Thomas (it has to be in that order in order to get them both).  We'll be in the lottery again, draft a solid offensive minded Forward to play behind Tyrus and Deng.  checkmate

2010 lineup
Rose/Hinrich
Wade/Hinrich/Thabo
Deng/Thabo/draft pick
Thomas/Noah/draft pick
Thabeet/Noah/Gray

Thats a ton of offense, and a top 3 defense.  Wade is your championship piece, and the rest of the team is signed long term so you can keep an experienced core for a number of years.  Think about how much better guys like Hinrich, Deng and Thomas would be if the pressure was off of them to be the go to guys.  Thomas wouldn't get into as much foul trouble if he didn't have to try and be the enforcer in the post.  Thabeet could do that while Thomas cleans up the boards and runs the pick and roll with Rose.  Hinrich could still get 30 minutes in relief of our guards and simply line up defensively and make solid plays.  Rose could stop trying to get too many off balanced scores and could simply run the offense like he can while trying to get the ball to Wade.  Deng could play through a lot more one on one situations and sit back shooting his corner 15 footer all day long, which he doesn't miss when open.  The Bulls would easily be a 50 win team with this strategy, and could easily compete for titles as well. 

Thats not too many moves to make, and it doesn't require too many drastic changes.  The key is positioning ourselves to make that happen. 
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 03:12:25 pm »
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Joe Johnson would be a better fit with rose than Wade.
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 05:43:34 pm »
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Thats like saying that Reggie Miller would be a better fit than MJ next to Isaih Thomas.  Don't think so.
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 06:58:18 pm »
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I gotta disagree, I actually agree with Rose meshing better with Johnson than he would with Wade, but Wade is still the better player.
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 07:12:28 pm »
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The problem with trying to make wholesale changes for next year is cutting off any possiblity of having cap space for 2010, I'm not for having an empty roster but have the flexibility to get in the market. The other side is teams either are trying to clear their rosters for the 2010 FAs, NYK, NJ, head the list and are afraid to make any deals or they have overloaded themselves already and can't do much, look at Washington, Milwaukee, Golden State, LAC.

At some point they have to trade Larry Hughes, who they get who knows? You hope for a sign and trade for Gordon but what team is there for him so who could you get? I'm fed up with Thomas and Noah being so inconsistant, honestly 8 points and 8 rebounds and playing smart and efficiently every game would be better than 16 and 14 every few games and doing nothing and making so many foolish turnovers and fouls in between. You never know what you're going to get out of them. Gooden probably gets more money than he's really worth somewhere else.

I'm sick and tired of hearing how they need to play defense to win and not seeing Sefelosha play more than 8 minutes. It was the same crap last year with Skiles and Boylan. And I'll say the same thing as last year, if the guy can't play get rid of him but I see that he has talent when he's in there so play him.



A couple of things. I believe that the trade of Larry Hughes would have happened by now except for injuries, first to Hinrich which meant that the Bulls needed Hughes and second because the team they were trading with had injuries maybe even the player going to the Bulls. In my perfect world that would be Elton Brand. Philadelphia played well last year running, he got hurt this year and they started winning again. They get some scoring from the backcourt and cut three years off of a big contract to better retool for 2010. The Bulls get the long big contract of a low post scorer but with trades after 2009 could free up space for 2010 to sign one FA. They would then have three big time players.

Either Thomas or Noah could bring a veteran center or there could be FAs available, mostly someone to play defense, rebound, seta decent pick and move the ball in the offense. Doesn't have to be a low post scorer, Brand does that and Gray can off the bench.

If they would play Sefelosha and establish him come 2010 Dwayne Wade is a great option. Trade Hinrich and Nocioni, have Sefelosha backup Deng and Wade, go big at times in the back with Wade and Sefelosha.

2009 comes down to

Deng          Nocioni  1st round pick
Brand         Nocinoni a one year veteran FA
x               Gray
Sefelosha   Hinrich    a one year veteran FA
Rose          Hinrich    second round pick

If they show that they can win in 2009 going over into the luxury tax for 2010 with the chance of a championship isn't out of the question.


2010

Deng       09 1st round pick
Brand      10 1st round pick
x             Gray   Asik?
Rose        09 second round pick
Wade      Sefelosha



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ChitownBulls
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 10:01:53 pm »
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Nothing is a for sure deal in 2010, look at what happened to the bulls when Tmac and Grant Hill an Duncan were all free agents back in the day. We didnt get none of them, an we had a TON of money to spend. Thats why i say, just trade for one of those guys right now...Amare (since he supposely on the block). Then you for sure have him on your team. Right after you make the trade to get him, i say you sit him down and start talking contract extentions, so your already ahead of the game. Just adding Amare, make us a much better team. We will have 2 absolute studs on this team, that right there can win you at least 30 something games. Then just play the rest of this year out, get a nice draft pick in the lottery and your ready to go. By the time 2010 gets here, just go after 1 guy with the money you have left. Gooden can go, trade Gordon to Phoenix or try to get something for him, last thing would be just to have him walk. Trade hughes for Etan Thomas and a 2nd rounder.

Rose,Hinrich
Free Agent in 2010, Thabo
Noc,DaJuan Summer
Thomas, Hanagrody
Amare,Gray
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 10:33:13 pm »
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Very true, although T-Mac was the only one we really went out on a limb to try to get, and at the time I wasn't even that excited about it, because he hadn't shown that he was any more than a good player. In fact, it's eerie how much his numbers from back then resemble his numbers now, give and take with a couple of the stats. So it wasn't like he was a superstar or anything, but then again, it was assumed that he was on his way.

Chicago is clearly a place where just about any player would love to be, but Pax has to show that he's the type of GM to make things happen when things aren't going well, or else players will avoid the Bulls, much like they did back then because of Krause and his bad reputation in that sense and many more. I agree that the safest option is to get the guy on the team already.
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 03:09:35 pm »
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Nothing is a for sure deal in 2010, look at what happened to the bulls when Tmac and Grant Hill an Duncan were all free agents back in the day. We didnt get none of them, an we had a TON of money to spend. Thats why i say, just trade for one of those guys right now...Amare (since he supposely on the block). Then you for sure have him on your team. Right after you make the trade to get him, i say you sit him down and start talking contract extentions, so your already ahead of the game. Just adding Amare, make us a much better team. We will have 2 absolute studs on this team, that right there can win you at least 30 something games. Then just play the rest of this year out, get a nice draft pick in the lottery and your ready to go. By the time 2010 gets here, just go after 1 guy with the money you have left. Gooden can go, trade Gordon to Phoenix or try to get something for him, last thing would be just to have him walk. Trade hughes for Etan Thomas and a 2nd rounder.

Rose,Hinrich
Free Agent in 2010, Thabo
Noc,DaJuan Summer
Thomas, Hanagrody
Amare,Gray



Well F.Y.I. Grant hill and t-mac, didnt signed because of the background the bulls have. Did you ever ask yourself why the bulls when from contending, to not even making it to the playoffs?? It was all Jerry Krause, and his decision making. Nobody wanted to play for the bulls at that time. But have you not heard, that in 2010, "commentators, or anylist" have said that rose can opened windows, in to getting a bosh, or and amare, and maybe a bron, because they know they can help win, and maybe contend for a title. I Mean it's not like before, but anyone getting any player in 2010, it becomes a question mark for any team that wants to get in the 2010 free agency. Remember, the knicks, and everyone an there mama's think that james is heading to the new york, well that we dont know. Any thing can happened in 2010. Maybe Wade, bron, bosh, amare, and up staying in there current teams. Maybe not, maybe bosh joins bron in cleveland, or viceversa. We dont know. That's why i think it's best to get amare right now if we can, because you're right we might end up with nothing. But not because we cant get them, just like you mentioned Hill, T-mac, and Duncan. There are possibilties, just like how we can get amare before the deadline.
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ChitownBulls
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 09:46:39 pm »
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I totally agree, Cleveland is one of the top teams this year and last...if LeBron wins the championship this year, why would he want to go anywhere? Like we have been saying go after Amare or someone right now...by the time 2010 comes around, we should have all of our contract situations all done by then with Amare or whomever. When 2010 is here we will have Amare and Rose as our main attractions for our team to help bring in another player.
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