Derrick Rose

[#1 n only bullfan]

People, i have a few questions regarding Derrick Rose . Okay, I wonder, and i do think... That Derrick Rose can take over games if he wanted to. I know that he also prefers to past the ball, before shooting, but really if the game is close why not take over?



There has been times where i just wonder, if he is only going to be a Pass first player through out his career, or is he only giving it time, that when we at least expect it, he will blow. To be honest fella's everygame i watch, i just expect the unexpected from Derrick Rose.



Thoughts?

[GMJames]

I wish I could find a link or maybe someone else will. But Coach Cal was on the score 670 before the draft talking about Rose. And he told a story about when they were in the final four and Derrick was trying to be a pass first point guard, His team mates were not scoring and Coach Cal said he had to call a timeout and tell Derrick "What are you doing?" "You need to be more selfish and try to score." Also, I have seen D-Rose in interviews mention how much he enjoys making the pass that helps a team mate score. Alot of guys say stuff like that, But with Rose it's actually true. He is very humble and I guess from being the baby of four brothers that showed him tough love makes him that way. Which is a great trait for a ball player. But in time he will see that at anytime he can score at will, and sometimes the best way to help your team mates is to win the game. He is a rookie and still trying to fit in with his new nuclear family, but he will have some explosive games scoring in the future. Also, so much is made of OJ Mayo's scoring more points then Rose. You hear it alot on TV from analysis, but Derrick's assists are better then Mayo, Look for him to up both averages before they vote for Rookie of the year. I am sure he wants to win that bad. The bottom line is the guy wants to Win... Period.

[No Pressure]

Why wouldnt you want Rose to pass?  The NBA has players that can shoot the ball so i would rather see Rose dish the ball to an open Gordon for 3 rather then Rose try and break through traffic and try to score.  Rose is fine.

[james]

i agree rose is doing perfectly fine(exept 4 his defense )

[#1 n only bullfan]

Yes,


I agree, but have you not seen when shots are being forced, or even when rose does find his man open but can score. I mean Rose needs to take over when the game is on the line, and his teamates or not being productive.

[youngrazzle7]

He's had chances to take over games and has failed, so it's not as if he hasn't tried... It will come in time, for instance againist Minnesota he kinda blew that 1 himself.

[ChitownBulls]

Yea give him time, he is 19 years old. A year and a half out of High School. He is a boy amoungst men right now. We just got to keep him happy why he is here right now. I still think we need a better coach in here to help him grow as a player. Avery Johnson would actaully bring some serousness to the Bulls. Its like were a joke right now with VDN on our bench.

[No Pressure]

Rose is 20.

[Mild Sauce]

^ That's the biggest thing right there, he's only 20 years old, he's still got a lot he can learn.

What I would like to see him do right now is take more drives to take over games. When he drives the ball constantly going in to get the ball in the hoop, it'll also lead to teammates being open along the perimeter, so he can always have that option as well and can then start to get the ball to teammates with open shots.

[GMJames]

The way teams have defended him is to just crowd the paint. That's why he has been shooting those mid range shots, But still he isn't consistent yet at that. And the guard can still bother his shot at that range. Eventually, He will get a three point in his bag of tricks and then teams will be forced to stay tight on him. Then he can just blow by people, and not just to score but to create for others. Look at the New Jersey game, The Bulls have to stay up tight on Harris because of his three ball, And he is able to blow by the defender. And since thet Bulls don't have a shot blocker to meet him, it's easy points. The difference with Rose is he will eventually be able to beat two guys, The PG guarding him and the shot blocker that comes to help. Because Rose is a better jumper & Finisher then Harris. However, If Derrick could get 12 Assists and 10 points and a win I feel he would be happy. That's his game.

[#1 n only bullfan]

Well, herris was blowing by rose, becauser of the pick- n- roll. Not because herris was beating rose one on one.

Also, yesterday, and Sunday game should of been in our pocket. But there is still whole lot of questions???!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fella's just remember this question marks, and i will soon tell you why, mostly likely by next years deadline. I put this, because there is doubts in my mind, and i mean everyone beside the newcomers, that wear a bull uniform. To be honest we are not that bad of a team, meaning we should not have this record, but with "DERRICK ROSE" on our roster we should be a lot better, no excuses.

[ChitownBulls]

We need to find out how to stop a pick and roll!!!! Thats what we need to do. Everybody kills us with that.VDN step your game up and show these guys how to stop it. Another thing is that we go under almost every single screen, leaving our man open for uncontested jump shots all day. It gets annoying.

[BteamBomber]

Defensively, you cannot blame a PG for not defending the pick and roll well.  That's why the strategy was invented and why its still the most widely used single plan at any level of basketball.  Even the greatest defending PG's in history get beat by it regularly, even though there are levels of success that can be made to occasionally force your opponents hands against it.  The Bulls inability to defend the pick and roll is due both to the inability of their big man to close off the guard that gets the screen and the inability of the helpside defense to get over fast enough to breakup the play.  Defending the pick and roll takes five players working in harmony (see Boston for an example).  Not only does the help defender have to get over to protect the lane faster than the guard can get to the lane, but the other two players have to rotate over to help the help defenders guy and the opponents best jump shooter on a kick out.  The Bulls almost always miss one of these elements.  Its a combination of good coaching and players absorbing what they're supposed to be taught.  It seems easy enough to fall asleep down on the weakside corner while the action is happening on the opposite perimeter in a two man game.  But the Bulls weakside defenders need to be alert to the fact that in nanoseconds, the ball is coming their way.  Rose is not at fault for the team defense problems, though if he were a little more vocal, he wouldn't be afraid to call out his teammates when they miss their assignments. 

As far as Rose "taking over a game in the 4th quarter".  I think VDN has pretty much made this his strategy for the last 6 minutes of any close game, without really teaching Rose or the team how to respond to it.  The Bulls spend 42 minutes a game running a pretty sound offensive set regardless of whether Rose, Gordon or Hinrich is handling the ball.  But when they need sure, open shots the most in a close game, he basically tells his playmaking rookie to do everything differently from the rest of the game.  In reality, teh best playmakers like Wade, Lebron and Kobe know that late in the game, its best to run team sets that allow the game to come to them.  Of course late in the game teams are going to shade towards Rose and Gordon.  The Bulls need to use that strategy to open up easy dunks for Noah and Thomas, or drive and dish mid range jumpers for Deng, and THEN use the reality check on opposing defenses to get some one on one situations for Rose.  I guarantee you that at the 5 minute timeout of any 4th quarter, opposing coaches are telling their players to shade towards the lane and keep their eyes on Rose.  If he exploited that and guided some of that towards immediate pain through his teammates, he'd find that at the 3 minute timeout (that the opposing coach had to call in order to stop the momentum), he'd tell them to get back on their assignments, which would, in turn, shift the defense back into regular mode, giving Rose lots and lots of space to create for himself.  This is something that will take time for both Rose and Del Negro to learn. 

Its ironic that Del Negro played alongside Doc Rivers and Avery Johnson for a time, but can't figure out some of the things that they both coach, and did brilliantly. 

[ChitownBulls]

lol +2 ....yea 1 thing that makes Boston so good on defense is because they have a Hybrid in Kevin Garnett that can just roam around and do whatever he wants. Hopefully Tyrus will some day be able to get that good defensively.

[joehoo]

Defensively, you cannot blame a PG for not defending the pick and roll well.  That's why the strategy was invented and why its still the most widely used single plan at any level of basketball.  Even the greatest defending PG's in history get beat by it regularly, even though there are levels of success that can be made to occasionally force your opponents hands against it.  The Bulls inability to defend the pick and roll is due both to the inability of their big man to close off the guard that gets the screen and the inability of the helpside defense to get over fast enough to breakup the play.  Defending the pick and roll takes five players working in harmony (see Boston for an example).  Not only does the help defender have to get over to protect the lane faster than the guard can get to the lane, but the other two players have to rotate over to help the help defenders guy and the opponents best jump shooter on a kick out.  The Bulls almost always miss one of these elements.  Its a combination of good coaching and players absorbing what they're supposed to be taught.  It seems easy enough to fall asleep down on the weakside corner while the action is happening on the opposite perimeter in a two man game.  But the Bulls weakside defenders need to be alert to the fact that in nanoseconds, the ball is coming their way.  Rose is not at fault for the team defense problems, though if he were a little more vocal, he wouldn't be afraid to call out his teammates when they miss their assignments. 

As far as Rose "taking over a game in the 4th quarter".  I think VDN has pretty much made this his strategy for the last 6 minutes of any close game, without really teaching Rose or the team how to respond to it.  The Bulls spend 42 minutes a game running a pretty sound offensive set regardless of whether Rose, Gordon or Hinrich is handling the ball.  But when they need sure, open shots the most in a close game, he basically tells his playmaking rookie to do everything differently from the rest of the game.  In reality, teh best playmakers like Wade, Lebron and Kobe know that late in the game, its best to run team sets that allow the game to come to them.  Of course late in the game teams are going to shade towards Rose and Gordon.  The Bulls need to use that strategy to open up easy dunks for Noah and Thomas, or drive and dish mid range jumpers for Deng, and THEN use the reality check on opposing defenses to get some one on one situations for Rose.  I guarantee you that at the 5 minute timeout of any 4th quarter, opposing coaches are telling their players to shade towards the lane and keep their eyes on Rose.  If he exploited that and guided some of that towards immediate pain through his teammates, he'd find that at the 3 minute timeout (that the opposing coach had to call in order to stop the momentum), he'd tell them to get back on their assignments, which would, in turn, shift the defense back into regular mode, giving Rose lots and lots of space to create for himself.  This is something that will take time for both Rose and Del Negro to learn. 

Its ironic that Del Negro played alongside Doc Rivers and Avery Johnson for a time, but can't figure out some of the things that they both coach, and did brilliantly. 

What do you think of this answer too...

I think the value in a player like Rose is that he does pass first.  He forces a vacuum to where he's headed... the rim, and opens up spaces at the top of the key.  You'll see this in 91 when Jordan drives at the center of the key from the top, the defense all collapses and the wings are wide open for Paxson or Grant to hit a jumper. 

So Rose's value is the same that Eddy Curry's was, though Rose is ten times better and the effect is more direct and noticeable.  If Curry had his game on, you could fake a pass down low, the defense would flinch and you had a split second to get a shot that maybe you couldn't get off of your own dribble. 

With Rose it's much more noticeable.  Because he's a point and because he is a threat to dunk at the rim and blow by people, he forces overcompensation, to a lesser degree, but in the same way Jordan did.  Rose drives baseline and eventually 3 guys are standing in a direct line between he and the rim... boom, pass to the top of the key to say Gordon.

Gordon cannot get his own shot consistently and fundamentally.  He's weak on the dribble and can't create space.  He's scoring with more ease and more consistently because Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, Thomas, etc... don't have to take on the laborious task of creating their own shot from scratch.  Rose creates it for them.  Rose is the guy who can create his shot given to the 11 guys who can hit an open shot but can't create one to save their lives.  It's a great marriage. 

For example, when I see the scouting report on the ultra-athletic, quick, explosive Damion James, I see that he's too complacent, not a go-to-guy.  Well that's fine with Rose, because if the Bulls draft the 6'7" 227 lb. SF from Texas, he won't have to create a lane to the basket.  Rose will create it for him. 

When explosive PGs start to try to take to everyone and score it may look great, but you don't realize that they are losing their value.  Now, there will be times when teams say "Derrick can't beat us that badly," and single cover him.  That's when he needs to blow by the PG and dunk on the power forward.  It's good that he can do that.  However, when teams double and triple him, he needs to do what he does and find Ben Gordon cutting into a soft spot in the defense for a step-in, 15-foot, easy jumper... a jumper that Gordon never could have created so open by himself.