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Author Topic: So Miami wants Bosh...  (Read 17107 times)
jmlamerson
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« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2010, 04:46:46 pm »

I think it's hilarious that Miami fans seem to think Toronto will have no money to re-sign Bosh, but they'll be able to re-sign Wade, AND sign Bosh, and still be able to fill out a complete roster. You can have two stars on your team, but you generally need this thing called a bench. A centre who isn't Jermaine O'Neal might help, and an upgrade at point guard...but hey, those just grow on trees right?

I'm cribbing from another guy a bit, but let's say:

Let’s say the Cap is $52M.  Beasley, Chalmers, and Cook will combine for $7,986,486. Add in Jones’ buyout number for 2010-11 at $1,856,000 and the Heat will have $9,842,486 in salary beginning this offseason.  Let’s put the cap hold on the two middle of the first round picks and their 2nd rounder at $3.4 million, so the Heat’s salary it to $13,242,486.  Let’s say the Heat renounce all their expiring contracts except for Wade, meaning they have six empty roster spots. The amount for the hold is the league minimum. Assuming the minimum is the same, the cap hold will be $457,588 * 5 = $2,287,940. This puts them up to $15,530,426. Because they won’t renounce Wade, Dwyane Wade will have a cap hold of 150% of his previous salary ($23,669,868). 

If the Heat max out Wade, his first year salary will be 105% of his salary for this year or $16,568,908. At this point, they will have $16,568,908 + $15,530,426 = $32,099,334 committed in salary.  For Bosh, add in $16,568,908 - $457,588 (the one less empty roster spot), and the total $48,268,242, leaving just enough to resign Haslem.

At this point, the Heat’s roster is Haslem, Chalmers, Wade, Beasley, Bosh, two 1st round rookies (let’s say a C and PG), 1 2nd round rookie (best SF available), and Cook. They have to fill out their roster with four veteran's minimum players, probably a SF, C, SG, and PG. 

Now, this doesn’t look terrific for 2010-2011 (although it might be enough in the very weak East), but in 2011-2012 with the MLE to play with and trade possibilities, they’d be the favorites by a long shot.

Not saying it will happen.  But it’s not that improbable either.
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Jack Dempsey
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« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2010, 04:50:51 pm »

I think it's hilarious that Miami fans seem to think Toronto will have no money to re-sign Bosh, but they'll be able to re-sign Wade, AND sign Bosh, and still be able to fill out a complete roster. You can have two stars on your team, but you generally need this thing called a bench. A centre who isn't Jermaine O'Neal might help, and an upgrade at point guard...but hey, those just grow on trees right?

nobody said that toronto won't have the money to resign bosh. you can always resign your own player even if you are over the cap. BUT you won't have the money bring in some talent to make this team a contender. when you give 35% of the salary cap to hedo turkoglu and jose calderon then you better already have a team that contends otherwise it's not looking all too good for you.
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Jack Dempsey
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« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2010, 05:15:18 pm »

I think it's hilarious that Miami fans seem to think Toronto will have no money to re-sign Bosh, but they'll be able to re-sign Wade, AND sign Bosh, and still be able to fill out a complete roster. You can have two stars on your team, but you generally need this thing called a bench. A centre who isn't Jermaine O'Neal might help, and an upgrade at point guard...but hey, those just grow on trees right?

I'm cribbing from another guy a bit, but let's say:

Let’s say the Cap is $52M.  Beasley, Chalmers, and Cook will combine for $7,986,486. Add in Jones’ buyout number for 2010-11 at $1,856,000 and the Heat will have $9,842,486 in salary beginning this offseason.  Let’s put the cap hold on the two middle of the first round picks and their 2nd rounder at $3.4 million, so the Heat’s salary it to $13,242,486.  Let’s say the Heat renounce all their expiring contracts except for Wade, meaning they have six empty roster spots. The amount for the hold is the league minimum. Assuming the minimum is the same, the cap hold will be $457,588 * 5 = $2,287,940. This puts them up to $15,530,426. Because they won’t renounce Wade, Dwyane Wade will have a cap hold of 150% of his previous salary ($23,669,868). 

If the Heat max out Wade, his first year salary will be 105% of his salary for this year or $16,568,908. At this point, they will have $16,568,908 + $15,530,426 = $32,099,334 committed in salary.  For Bosh, add in $16,568,908 - $457,588 (the one less empty roster spot), and the total $48,268,242, leaving just enough to resign Haslem.

At this point, the Heat’s roster is Haslem, Chalmers, Wade, Beasley, Bosh, two 1st round rookies (let’s say a C and PG), 1 2nd round rookie (best SF available), and Cook. They have to fill out their roster with four veteran's minimum players, probably a SF, C, SG, and PG. 

Now, this doesn’t look terrific for 2010-2011 (although it might be enough in the very weak East), but in 2011-2012 with the MLE to play with and trade possibilities, they’d be the favorites by a long shot.

Not saying it will happen.  But it’s not that improbable either.


a few questions:

1)doesn't jones have a TO? so if they don't pick it up he'll become a regular FA and doesn't count against their cap?

2)i thought the starting salary of a max contract is 30% of the salary cap. didn't know it's 105% of the current salary

3)the only way bosh gets as much money as wade is if they sign and trade for him

4)doesn't haslem's contract count 150% of his salary against the cap as well?
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iyamwutiam
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« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2010, 06:03:01 pm »

Better than the bird in hand than the two in the bush.  There is no way Miami as a franchise can support the kind of budget that DWade and todays championship efforts demand.  The game is truly global and has a way larger TV audience than a stadium audience.  Super-teams like the Lakers/Orlando/Boston/Cleveland have re-energized the base. 

Time to throw the Knnicks on that heap.  DWade + Bosh to New York Tongue
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LordLeoshes
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« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2010, 10:34:04 pm »

Question for you though, if Bosh does not come to Miami, then what do you see the prospects of Wade staying? I don't know what Amare is doing, but if he becomes unavailable and Bosh stays in Toronto, Wade might be the one on his way out no?


yes!!! funny, earlier in this thread you called me an idiot and now you're coming up with exactly my point lol

i already explained it here. before miami signs another superstar they'll have to resign their current players or renounce their rights first. what is wade going to do? risk and sign with miami or play it safe and sign with chicago to play alongside rose? as you said, if miami doesn't sign or trade for the right pieces, wade will be gone. this team is a lottery team without him and a low playoff seed with him. he knows they won't win anything soon.

the situation isn't much better in toronto either. if bosh decides to leave in the offseason they'll be stucked with hedo and jose. they'd be to good to get a high draft pick but still would be miles away from a playoff spot. that means mediocrity for a while. sure it sucks to trade your best player when you're winning but an early first round exit is the most realistic scenario for the raptors this season

Toronto is in much better shape than Miami, Turk, Jack, Jose, and Bargs are very talented players. The heat are full of d leaguers, look at Toronto, 5 games above .500 playing great ball, Miami is falling and falling fast. Wade does everything alone, this is not the case in Toronto.




Realistically TOR looks better this year. But not going into the future. Pat mad sure off that by not getting desperate, & over paying someone like Turk. Low blow but you get the point.

Next year what do TOR have to look forward to? At least Miami has around $40mil, & ours, & your, 1st round picks.


If Bosh leaves, how much money will you have to improve? Now revers that. If Wade leaves ? You know the rest.

LOL no not a low blow at all, fully agree there (sometimes you gotta overpay to get talent though), but this offseason is way overhyped. Only 3 players make it seem amazing, but otherwise if lets say Wade leaves, who will sign with Miami? No matter who they sign, that player will be no Wade. Same with if Bosh leaves. It's nice having money, but there needs to be talent out there which is worth fetching for, and this offseason isn't as great as people are making it out to be. Johnson, Allen, J Ho, TMac, Amare, Ginobili, Boozer all the FA after the big 3, which really isn't that great. Only real guy you can say is good is Johnson, and he really has no reason to leave. Lebron I doubt will leave, so that leaves Bosh and Wade. Amare if he goes to Miami will probably mean Bosh stays and nothing big happens in offseason, same with if Boozer goes to Miami. Boozer or Amare probably heading to Miami and Bosh staying is most likely at this rate. The whole cap situation with the new CBA could also effect how much you spend. If Miami gets Amare, Bosh or Boozer, they are a good team, but they are still not a contender IMO, they have little or no players around those guys at all, and Bosh if he does leave will be in a S&T (just trust me on this one) so the assets Miami does have will probably be back to Toronto. Bosh and Wade are good, but even then you need more than D-Leaguers to win a title....



You forgot trading cap for players on another team.

& you underestimate the endorsements that bosh would get playing next to a Wade/Bron/Kobe type of player. Then there is the state tax which basically means they make an extra mill each year in FLA/TEX.

& like you mentioned about the new bargaining agreement, he might not make all that much more staying with his original team.

In the end if i was beating money i would say it depended on if TOR has a good showing in the playoffs, & what him, Bron, Wade, & JJ talk about in their diner meeting.
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LordLeoshes
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« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2010, 10:39:50 pm »

I think it's hilarious that Miami fans seem to think Toronto will have no money to re-sign Bosh, but they'll be able to re-sign Wade, AND sign Bosh, and still be able to fill out a complete roster. You can have two stars on your team, but you generally need this thing called a bench. A centre who isn't Jermaine O'Neal might help, and an upgrade at point guard...but hey, those just grow on trees right?


nobody said TOR didn't have the money to resign Bosh.
& i think it is already a proven fact that Miami does have the cap to sign 2 max players. & about that bench? Miami also will have around $10mil, Beasley, Chalmers, Cook,  Anthony, & 2 1st round picks. yes yours to, thank you. Then depending on Wade, & who the other max player is, you could beat that vets will be jumping on the bandwagon to compete for a championship (AT THE MIN). It's not like it hasn't happened before, so dont be so bitter.
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Every tyrant in the 20th century began his tyranny by first confiscating guns, & gold from the people over whom he ruled over.

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« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2010, 10:47:07 pm »

I think it's hilarious that Miami fans seem to think Toronto will have no money to re-sign Bosh, but they'll be able to re-sign Wade, AND sign Bosh, and still be able to fill out a complete roster. You can have two stars on your team, but you generally need this thing called a bench. A centre who isn't Jermaine O'Neal might help, and an upgrade at point guard...but hey, those just grow on trees right?
what? No one said you didn't have money to sign Bosh, but why would Bosh stay there, when if you sign him, he would be the only player you sign, and your team will be stuck the same way it is now, without a difference. So why would he play again for a team that's not a contender?

Again to summarise, did anyone at all say they had no money to sign Bosh?
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LordLeoshes
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2nd Amendment wont b needed til they try taking it


« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2010, 10:48:01 pm »

I think it's hilarious that Miami fans seem to think Toronto will have no money to re-sign Bosh, but they'll be able to re-sign Wade, AND sign Bosh, and still be able to fill out a complete roster. You can have two stars on your team, but you generally need this thing called a bench. A centre who isn't Jermaine O'Neal might help, and an upgrade at point guard...but hey, those just grow on trees right?

I'm cribbing from another guy a bit, but let's say:

Let’s say the Cap is $52M.  Beasley, Chalmers, and Cook will combine for $7,986,486. Add in Jones’ buyout number for 2010-11 at $1,856,000 and the Heat will have $9,842,486 in salary beginning this offseason.  Let’s put the cap hold on the two middle of the first round picks and their 2nd rounder at $3.4 million, so the Heat’s salary it to $13,242,486.  Let’s say the Heat renounce all their expiring contracts except for Wade, meaning they have six empty roster spots. The amount for the hold is the league minimum. Assuming the minimum is the same, the cap hold will be $457,588 * 5 = $2,287,940. This puts them up to $15,530,426. Because they won’t renounce Wade, Dwyane Wade will have a cap hold of 150% of his previous salary ($23,669,868). 

If the Heat max out Wade, his first year salary will be 105% of his salary for this year or $16,568,908. At this point, they will have $16,568,908 + $15,530,426 = $32,099,334 committed in salary.  For Bosh, add in $16,568,908 - $457,588 (the one less empty roster spot), and the total $48,268,242, leaving just enough to resign Haslem.

At this point, the Heat’s roster is Haslem, Chalmers, Wade, Beasley, Bosh, two 1st round rookies (let’s say a C and PG), 1 2nd round rookie (best SF available), and Cook. They have to fill out their roster with four veteran's minimum players, probably a SF, C, SG, and PG. 

Now, this doesn’t look terrific for 2010-2011 (although it might be enough in the very weak East), but in 2011-2012 with the MLE to play with and trade possibilities, they’d be the favorites by a long shot.

Not saying it will happen.  But it’s not that improbable either.




You think i can call you to do my taxes?  Wink


& the cap estimations in preseason were between $50mil, & $53mil, but now it looks like that estimation might rise to around $55mil. + there is still (hopefully) time to trade of Jones $1,8mil, & maybe cook. As well as the possibility to trade both picks for future picks. That would be around another $7mil.
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Every tyrant in the 20th century began his tyranny by first confiscating guns, & gold from the people over whom he ruled over.

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LordLeoshes
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« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2010, 10:54:50 pm »

Better than the bird in hand than the two in the bush.  There is no way Miami as a franchise can support the kind of budget that DWade and todays championship efforts demand.  The game is truly global and has a way larger TV audience than a stadium audience.  Super-teams like the Lakers/Orlando/Boston/Cleveland have re-energized the base. 

Time to throw the Knnicks on that heap.  DWade + Bosh to New York Tongue





wa-wa   wa-wa   wa-wa-wa-wa

You remind me of the old peanuts cartoon of Charlie Brown that every time an adult would walk in the room you could never see their head or hear them say a word. Just  Wa-wa  wa-wa  wa-wa-wa-wa. Roll Eyes
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Every tyrant in the 20th century began his tyranny by first confiscating guns, & gold from the people over whom he ruled over.

 Hitler, Chaves, Castro, Quadafi, Stalin, Idi Amin, Ma Tse-tung, pol pot, & Kim Jong-il would all agree that gun control works!
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« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2010, 11:12:07 pm »

Better than the bird in hand than the two in the bush.  There is no way Miami as a franchise can support the kind of budget that DWade and todays championship efforts demand.  The game is truly global and has a way larger TV audience than a stadium audience.  Super-teams like the Lakers/Orlando/Boston/Cleveland have re-energized the base. 

Time to throw the Knnicks on that heap.  DWade + Bosh to New York Tongue
sorry to burst your buble, but D Wade himself has rules out playing for the knicks.
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armand_a
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« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2010, 11:27:13 pm »

Better than the bird in hand than the two in the bush.  There is no way Miami as a franchise can support the kind of budget that DWade and todays championship efforts demand.  The game is truly global and has a way larger TV audience than a stadium audience.  Super-teams like the Lakers/Orlando/Boston/Cleveland have re-energized the base. 

Time to throw the Knnicks on that heap.  DWade + Bosh to New York Tongue





wa-wa   wa-wa   wa-wa-wa-wa

You remind me of the old peanuts cartoon of Charlie Brown that every time an adult would walk in the room you could never see their head or hear them say a word. Just  Wa-wa  wa-wa  wa-wa-wa-wa. Roll Eyes

Loads of this kind of kids running around this board tbh.

While we are at it.  The Heat can include Beasley, James and Cook in a sign-and-trade for Bosh (Raptors might like Beasley enough that they don't mind to take James and Cook's 3m for a year).  In that way the Heat's cup is completely bare and they can afford to get Wade, LBJ and Bosh!!

Granted, that would require them to round out the team with 10 other minimum free agents  Tongue 

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« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2010, 11:32:57 pm »

I understand that Toronto fans are saying if Bosh were to leave, that if he was loyal to the club and asked for a sign and trade
1. Why would he want to make his future team worse? and maybe miss out on the chip because one of those key players that were traded for him.
2. Why would teams trade for him, when they know that Bosh doesn't want to play for them, so Toronto don't have much power there as to what they recieve if they are fussy.
3. I understand Bosh can get more money if he signs with Toronto, but then again refer to point 1.
4. When i say "other teams" I pretty much mean Miami, because them and maybe one other team are the only ones that would be able to get Wade, and then get another MAX player without being forced into a S & T because of financial reasonings.
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cselby
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« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2010, 08:48:29 am »

*yawn* its the same old sh*t with you guys. we'll just wait and see in the offseason where Bosh is.
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jmlamerson
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« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2010, 08:59:36 am »

*yawn* its the same old sh*t with you guys. we'll just wait and see in the offseason where Bosh is.

I love Raptors fans.  Their team's never won a championship and never will, but they keep trying to talk sh*t.  Try not to cry too hard after the Raps collapse in the 1st round of the playoffs.  Again.
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ballers101
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« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2010, 10:22:53 am »

*yawn* its the same old sh*t with you guys. we'll just wait and see in the offseason where Bosh is.

I love Raptors fans.  Their team's never won a championship and never will, but they keep trying to talk sh*t.  Try not to cry too hard after the Raps collapse in the 1st round of the playoffs.  Again.
Miami has won 1 championship by way of Shaq and the refs being some of the worst I have ever seen.

Lets throw in the towel? No team should exist except those who have won a title before. Oh but wait, at one point no one had a title... Your an idiot.
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