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Author Topic: Drafting Flynn was a mistake  (Read 6854 times)
czaras
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2010, 06:50:11 am »
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Well, nobody took the 10 for their point guards so it's no surprise Kahn didn't. Besides, Flynn has more value then that even with the average year he had last year. Cousins barely played half a game a night in college, so thinking he's going to step in as a starter next season is ridiculous. And finally, the Igoudala-Jefferson swap makes no sense for Philadelphia.

So, nice idea if you're playing NBA 2k10 but not in the real world.

This.  You wont get Iggy with out taking Brands contract along with him.  I wouldn't have taken Flynn for that 10th pick either.  Flynn has proven he's not a bust.  he start most the games for the Wolves and you have to give him more then 1 year.  We all know Rubio wont play for the wolves.  He refuses to.  Cousin's is a bust waiting to happen.  Not to mention Flynn and Johnson already have chemistry together.  When minny got the 4th pick in the lotto flynn text johnson saying we will be teamates.  They have kept in touch every day since then.  Even during Johnsons interview 2 min after he was drafted Flynn was blowing up his phone.  You can't sleep on chemistry and 2 kids with amazing talent that want to play together.  You might actually be able to keep both these kids in Wolves jerseys as well if they do end up turning into stars.
It's as much of a guess as mine. Whatever you say about Rubio, Flynn and COusins might be turned around by 180 and would be still just as possible.

The difference is I'd risk dong some stuff, not stay pat liek Kahn did.

As for Iguodala... they'll have a ver similar logjam as we would with Cousins/Love/Jefferson because Turner and Iggy both need the ball. And they just drafted ET... Iggy will go. If not now, then at the deadline.
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shangrila
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 01:30:51 am »
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The difference is I'd risk dong some stuff, not stay pat liek Kahn did.
I don't agree with some of what CP said, but I'm curious what you'd have done that Kahn could have and didn't?

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As for Iguodala... they'll have a ver similar logjam as we would with Cousins/Love/Jefferson because Turner and Iggy both need the ball. And they just drafted ET... Iggy will go. If not now, then at the deadline.
You missed the point. With Jefferson and Brand only the roster they'd be paying the PF position alone 35 million between them two and Speights. THAT'S why it doesn't make sense for them.
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czaras
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 03:06:58 am »
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The difference is I'd risk dong some stuff, not stay pat liek Kahn did.
I don't agree with some of what CP said, but I'm curious what you'd have done that Kahn could have and didn't?
I'd deal Flynn for #10, that's a start. Were you reading my previous posts? Then I'd take Cousins #4 and Paul George #10. Kahn could've done both, easily. Then I'd never make such a lopsided deal as the #16 AND Gomes for Martell. I don't know what exactly was on the table and I never will but I do know there were better guys than Babbitt at #16 and that there were other teams that wanted to clear cap space and Gomes' deal would be perfect for them. Again, look at what Miami traded to OKC. If you don't like Beasley... then we could deal with Chicago or New York.

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As for Iguodala... they'll have a ver similar logjam as we would with Cousins/Love/Jefferson because Turner and Iggy both need the ball. And they just drafted ET... Iggy will go. If not now, then at the deadline.
You missed the point. With Jefferson and Brand only the roster they'd be paying the PF position alone 35 million between them two and Speights. THAT'S why it doesn't make sense for them.
Yep... OR they could play Jefferson at C. It's not like he hasn't played there for the majority of the last 2 years, right?
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shangrila
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 05:31:27 am »
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I'd deal Flynn for #10, that's a start. Were you reading my previous posts? Then I'd take Cousins #4 and Paul George #10. Kahn could've done both, easily. Then I'd never make such a lopsided deal as the #16 AND Gomes for Martell. I don't know what exactly was on the table and I never will but I do know there were better guys than Babbitt at #16 and that there were other teams that wanted to clear cap space and Gomes' deal would be perfect for them. Again, look at what Miami traded to OKC. If you don't like Beasley... then we could deal with Chicago or New York.
1. Maybe Flynn for 10 goes down, not sure. I think they'd want more TBH, but like you said we'll never know.
2. I'm sick of having to explain Cousins. He doesn't fit the offence, is a project at this point despite having skills and would have crashed and burned with the expectations people like you would have heaped upon him. He's much better as the 2nd option he'll end up as in Sacramento.
3. I don't see how it's lopsided. Babbitt was clearly all hype when he fell and as I've shown it's apparent Gomes' contract wasn't as valuable as we were led to believe pre-draft.
4. This is tied to the last point, but for the last damn time Oklahoma and Washington were offering pure capspace which is something we weren't. And what exactly would you be expecting off of Chicago or New York? Deng or Curry would be the contracts they were looking to move and nothing they'd realistically add to the deal makes either an enticing prospect to use the capspace on.
5. I think you're just set on being negative. I don't think I've seen you post anything good about this team over the last year or so and you seem to overreact badly to things like the Gomes deal. But that's just my 2c.


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Yep... OR they could play Jefferson at C. It's not like he hasn't played there for the majority of the last 2 years, right?
You're kidding right? Did you actually ever watch him play centre?

He doesn't rotate well defensively nor is he a good man defender when he's giving up 20-30 pounds and a few inches. So they'd get raped defensively, not exactly a plus.

And if you're going to get into semantics then my point was they'd have over 35 million tied into the BIG MEN. It just doesn't make sense for Philadelphia for any reason that I can see.
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czaras
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2010, 11:34:47 am »
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How can you be not negative when this team is regressing? When we dealt KG for youngsters we were supposed to take some time rebuilding and return. Well, everyone did that - Seattle/OKC post-Ray and Rashard, Portland post-ZBo, Phildelphia post-Iverson (lol they even had the time to start sucking again), Memphis post-Gasol... now even Sacramento starts looking ok after they blew up. It's just the Timberwolves who are constantly rebuilding and having sub 25-win seasons. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the incompetence that's gojng on and is sugar-coated. We didn't even get the GM we wanted, having Dennis Lindsey and Tom Penn withdraw their names from consideration after Taylor used the fall-back option in David Kahn.

Maybe I'm negative. But that's better than being a homer blindlessly approving everything this FO makes. I think you've been reading too much of a certain blog. Kahn is regarded a genius over there, nevermind what he does.
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shangrila
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2010, 06:01:11 pm »
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How can you be not negative when this team is regressing? When we dealt KG for youngsters we were supposed to take some time rebuilding and return. Well, everyone did that - Seattle/OKC post-Ray and Rashard, Portland post-ZBo, Phildelphia post-Iverson (lol they even had the time to start sucking again), Memphis post-Gasol... now even Sacramento starts looking ok after they blew up. It's just the Timberwolves who are constantly rebuilding and having sub 25-win seasons. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the incompetence that's gojng on and is sugar-coated. We didn't even get the GM we wanted, having Dennis Lindsey and Tom Penn withdraw their names from consideration after Taylor used the fall-back option in David Kahn.
Firstly, you seem to forget that Kahn has only been on the job for 1 year. If you thought they'd be good by now you were kidding yourself. But let's look at the teams then:

Oklahoma - Landed Kevin Durant. Sure, their GM has made some great moves but most of their success comes back to getting Durant.
Portland - Again, got Brandon Roy. Hell, they even got the #1 pick after that. And I know we traded him but that was McHale and co, not the current FO.
Philadelphia - I guess you're assuming they become special this season with Turner, which I don't see, but either way they also lucked into a good player in the draft.
Memphis - This one I'll give you although I think they've just spent to get guys that can win games but not a championship, if that makes sense.
Sacramento - Again, lucked into Evans in the draft.

The Wolves just haven't had the luck of the lottery. If they had an Evans, a Durant or still had Roy then you'd have a point. But for a small market team that needs to build through the draft they've been getting shafted by the odds for years and it makes it a hell of a lot harder to build a great team.

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Maybe I'm negative. But that's better than being a homer blindlessly approving everything this FO makes. I think you've been reading too much of a certain blog. Kahn is regarded a genius over there, nevermind what he does.
Which blog is this exactly? If it's canishoopus I'll laugh in your face for this comment.

I don't walk around approving everything this FO did and I agree they could have done better. But they're not the terrible moves you're making them out to be and I'm sure as hell not stupid enough to give up on a player half way through his rookie season like you did. If you don't like the team then go and support one of the other ones you listed. But I can't imagine moping around on boards like this posting negative crap about your team would be fun or even worth the minute it'd take to type.
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czaras
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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2010, 05:03:16 am »
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Yes, it's CH, the blog that had Cousins higher on their draft board than John Wall and Evan Turner. The blog that actually claimed it was a good deal to get Mark Blount-via-Q-Rich for Telfair, C.Smith and Madsen. Dig up their opinions on that stuff before laughing.

You claim all those teams were lucky to get a star. Only OKC HAD to take Durant. Portland raped us to get Roy, it wasn't luck, it was good moves. Same with Memphis. Same with Sac-Town. They all made the right moves while our FO (and Kahn has not been here for a year, he's been here for 18 months) still keeps making lateral moves, be it McHale, the Stack/Hoiberg duo or Kahn.

As for Philly - no, I don't mean Turner. Remember they were in the playoffs AFTER they blew up (Iverson and Webber going out)? They were able to rebuild way faster than we were. They even had the time to start sucking and how they're rebuilding AGAIN while we're in the same spot. Pathetic.

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I don't walk around approving everything this FO did and I agree they could have done better. But they're not the terrible moves you're making them out to be and I'm sure as hell not stupid enough to give up on a player half way through his rookie season like you did. If you don't like the team then go and support one of the other ones you listed. But I can't imagine moping around on boards like this posting negative crap about your team would be fun or even worth the minute it'd take to type.
If I was on your level I'd just tell you to stick it back up your ***, but I'll follow it up with some logic instead. Let's get some things straight. I do not appreciate people insulting me over my views on a team I have supported for years and probably longer than they were. I am stupid for giving up on Flynn halfway through his rookie season? That would be true, if I did. I marked him as bust AFTER the season. Don't be an ignoramus and check the post dates. -_- I stand by my view: he is not that good. He is not a good fit on this team. he's best suited elsewhere.

I have followed this team through their sad begginings before came the days of KG glory. Now I'm sad we're back to the start, sucking continuosly. I will not act as a tool for a 4th straight year of incompetence, poor drafting, bad management and sugar-coating something that's pure shit. Feel free to do so if those are your views, but accept that some people see through the obvious "it'll be better next year, give it some hope" propaganda. I've waited long enough, now I'm negative and BEGGING to be proved wrong. At least just a bit, at least this one offseason. if that's too much for you to comprehend and imagine, so be it.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 05:37:58 am by czaras » Logged
shangrila
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2010, 08:19:17 pm »
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Yes, it's CH, the blog that had Cousins higher on their draft board than John Wall and Evan Turner. The blog that actually claimed it was a good deal to get Mark Blount-via-Q-Rich for Telfair, C.Smith and Madsen. Dig up their opinions on that stuff before laughing.
They have a mathematical equation for determining prospects, therefore Cousins would logically be the #1 prospect after his monster year statistically. Blount IIRC was meant to be better because he had a larger expiring contract so they'd be able to take back more salary, but I guess that's all moot because everything was based on this summer. It's not as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.

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You claim all those teams were lucky to get a star. Only OKC HAD to take Durant. Portland raped us to get Roy, it wasn't luck, it was good moves. Same with Memphis. Same with Sac-Town. They all made the right moves while our FO (and Kahn has not been here for a year, he's been here for 18 months) still keeps making lateral moves, be it McHale, the Stack/Hoiberg duo or Kahn.
I'll give you Portland, and Memphis I was on the fence about, but Sacramento lucked into Evans. There's no other way of looking at it. And I don't see improving the team's perimeter defence and shooting as a lateral move, but I guess we just have different opinions on that.

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As for Philly - no, I don't mean Turner. Remember they were in the playoffs AFTER they blew up (Iverson and Webber going out)? They were able to rebuild way faster than we were. They even had the time to start sucking and how they're rebuilding AGAIN while we're in the same spot. Pathetic.
Philadelphia became more of a team after trading Iverson (when they got back Miller) and worked around that while getting into the playoffs of a really weak Eastern Conference. Then they LUCKED into Evan Turner. Their genius roster moves to rebuild have involved giving Brand one of the worst contracts in the league and a revolving door of coaches that has just stopped now.

It takes equal part luck and skill to build a team and I don't see where Minnesota has had the same luck. Maybe if you count Cousins, although I don't see him on the level of Durant or Evans, but I don't see where this team has had the chance to be like them under the Kahn era.

As for the rest, you're welcome to your opinion but you're not the only one who's been through the ups and down with this team. I'm as tired of watching this team lose year in and year out as you are, but I'm also willing to give Kahn to build something that will compete year in and year out. I don't want a quick fix and I'm not pissed at the team for failing to pull a miracle out of their ass. Kahn at least deserves some more time before he's judged.
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sofakingbad
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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2010, 09:56:04 pm »
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Kahn at least deserves some more time before he's judged.

How much more?

End of Free Agency?
End of Season?
After next Draft?


When do we feel we have enough info to judge a trend in his abilities?
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shangrila
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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2010, 10:30:01 pm »
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Kahn at least deserves some more time before he's judged.

How much more?

End of Free Agency?
End of Season?
After next Draft?


When do we feel we have enough info to judge a trend in his abilities?
Maybe a year or two after Rubio comes over? I'm not sure to be honest, as everything he's doing is based more long term then short.

Looking at what he's done already though, I'll give him the credit of at least having a plan for how the team is going to be run. For too many years with McHale it just felt like everything he did had no long term benefits.
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sofakingbad
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« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2010, 10:23:56 am »
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Kahn at least deserves some more time before he's judged.

How much more?

End of Free Agency?
End of Season?
After next Draft?


When do we feel we have enough info to judge a trend in his abilities?
Maybe a year or two after Rubio comes over? I'm not sure to be honest, as everything he's doing is based more long term then short.

Looking at what he's done already though, I'll give him the credit of at least having a plan for how the team is going to be run. For too many years with McHale it just felt like everything he did had no long term benefits.

Fair enough;  The cupboard was bare when he took over.  Once he made the determination that current assets are not a Number #1 or 2 option on his vision of a competitive NBA team  he needs to move them.
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shangrila
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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2010, 05:49:45 pm »
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Definitely. It's sad how much the media trashes him for doing the obvious. Last year the team had no point guards, so they fixed that. This year they had a Gomes, Wilkins, Sasha rotation at SF and they fixed that with a vengeance.
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