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Author Topic: Gomes and Babbitt to the Blazers for Webster  (Read 4326 times)
czaras
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 03:15:48 am »
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Martell is supposed to be a great shooter. He's supposed to be better when playing more minutes. Well... let's take the two seasons when he played the most. They happen to be last season and the season before his injury (he lost the 08/09 campaign).

07/08 - 28.5mpg .422 FG% .388 3P%
09/10 - 24.5mpg .405 FG% .373 3P%

That's hardly great. That's hardly good enough to be considered a 'shooter'. He never cracked .400 on 3 point attempts. Last season he wasn't even a better 3 point shooter than Ryan Gomes. And Gomes brought a lot more to the table when it comes to intangibles. And the punch-line, at least to me - freaking Jonny Flynn had similar FG% and 3P% numbers. I rest my case.

As for excelennt defender - I disagree. He's ok and stays in front of his man. From what I watched of Ryan Gomes - he did the same. I can only shrug.

And I have nothing against Major Lazer, I think it's a decent pickup.

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Brewer-Webster-Johnson-Heyward-Ellington for 48 minutes at two spots surely beats Brewer-Gomes-Wilkins-Pavlovic-Ellington.
Just as Brewer-Gomes-Johnson-Hayward-Ellington beats both. And we still have #16 to draft Bledsoe OR reach for Whiteside/Alabi and say goodbye to Hollins.

What are you defending here guys? Yoiu're trying to justify that trading a decent player and a good pick for another decent player is good? If it was Gomes for Webster straight up I'd say ok, let's do it. But with the pick included? That's highway robbery.

If you're going to play the "he gets better with more playing time" card then I answer with this:
his PER was 12 at best. 11-12 throughout his career. The league average is 15. Studs such as Darko and Marko (yes, the Lima guy) had better with similar PT. Gomes had a better PER. Jonny Flynn had a better PER.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 03:24:28 am by czaras » Logged
Zander
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 03:25:20 am »
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I think I can tell you a little more about Webster than you just showed. For one, Webster is a FAR better starter than bench player. That is a big deal considering the Wolves will be starting him. His numbers as a starter compared to his numbers off the bench were a pretty significant difference:

49 games as starter - 30.5 minutes, 11.9 points, .419 FG%, .392 3P%

33 games off bench - 15.5 minutes, 5.6 points, .365 FG%, .297 3P%


Man to man, Webster is average. But his awareness is up there. He blocks shots on the weak side like you'd expect a center to block them. He rarely blocks his own man's shots. In the first half the season as a starter, Webster defended some tough players and held his own. I'd call him an above average defender.

If Westley Johnson becomes a star player, I think the Wolves will be happy about having Webster. The best situation for him is playing SF next to a star SG who doesn't shoot a lot of 3's. I really wanted him to end up in Miami somehow playing next to Dwyane Wade but I'm not sure how that would have happened.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 03:29:51 am by Zander » Logged


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czaras
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 03:28:10 am »
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I think I can tell you a little more about Webster than you just showed. For one, Webster is a FAR better starter than bench player. That is a big deal considering the Wolves will be starting him. His numbers as a starter compared to his numbers off the bench were a pretty significant difference:

49 games as starter - 30.5 minutes, 11.9 points, .419 FG%, .392 3P%

32 games off bench - 15.5 minutes, 5.6 points, .365 FG%, .297 3P%

Yeah, but it's a difference between "not that good" when starting and "pretty bad" when coming off the bench. 30 minutes per game and THOSE numbers? Come on, his percentages are Jaric-like. I don't see him improving our offense even when being the focal point of it from long range.

As for the D, that's what I said. He's not excellent by any stretch, Dice. He's ok. Gomes was ok too.
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shangrila
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 05:34:34 am »
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For the record Gomes was never "ok" on defence. He either gave up too much height and strength when they played him at PF or was too slow to stay in front of anyone at SF. Webster is a huge upgrade defensively over him.
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czaras
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2010, 11:37:11 am »
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...and he was really worth both Gomes and the 16th pick?
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Zander
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2010, 03:57:17 pm »
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Also I think it's worth noting that the Blazers were 30th in Pace Factor last season while the Wolves were 3rd. I would expect a jump across the board is Webster's stats simply because of the pace change. Webster has always been more suited for a faster style of play.
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shangrila
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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2010, 05:50:35 pm »
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Alright, this will be the last thing I say in this thread because we seem to be going in circles.

Webster is a clear upgrade over Gomes. He's better offensively and defensively while still having the same intangibles off the court that Gomes is respected for. The draft is mostly a crap shoot after the top few picks and it's clear Babbitt was all hype when he dropped. Other then that there was no one worth taking there that wouldn't have been a reach, so getting a young veteran was a smart move. Finally, it's clear we've overrated Gomes' contract and it just wasn't as valuable as you seem to believe.

I'm tired of the draft. I'm tired of spending more time watching college then the NBA. I'm tired of spending hours researching prospects and dreaming of scenarios that never happen. This move was a step up river, so to speak, and I'm glad they took it.
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czaras
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2010, 04:56:01 am »
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Fair enough. But you keep forgetting that Webster has a massive deal too.
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sofakingbad
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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2010, 09:58:55 am »
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Fair enough. But you keep forgetting that Webster has a massive deal too.

4 years/ 20 mil is not massive; less than 9% of the cap for a starting SG is reasonable.
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Zander
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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2010, 01:19:08 pm »
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Fair enough. But you keep forgetting that Webster has a massive deal too.

It's massive compared to a rookie scale contract if that's what you mean. Find another team paying $4.8 mil for a 22 year old starter. I'm not saying he's underpaid but considering both his age and ability, that's perfectly reasonable.
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