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Author Topic: Simmons trade suggestion  (Read 6281 times)
Pervis Ellison
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 10:33:54 am »

Quote from: "Josh"
Quote from: "kingdumcome"
Quote from: "Josh"
Quote from: "kingdumcome"
KG wont be helpful in a running team at age 31
okay, I'm a touch sick of this sort of statement.  good defensive rebounders are always helpful to running teams.  you don't have to be a wind sprinter to help on a running team.  a rebound plus an outlet pass are just as useful.  KG's a great passer.  he could totally help the team.


edit- lets remember here, that the Lakers were a running team with a Kareem that was nearing 40.  there's more to being a running team than just going up and down the floor fast.



garnett is also a superstar player who needs to get his share and the whole team to play through him. and he plays in the post and that will slow them down


Kingdum, actually read what I'm posting, ok?  you can have a fast break team built around big men.  The two most successful fast breaking teams in the history of the league had two of the most acclaimed big men ever.  Bill Russell jump started the fast break with his defensive play, something Garnett could do to a lesser degree.   funneling blocks to teammates, making good outlet passes to runners.  The Lakers ran, despite Kareem nearing 40 years old!  40!  You need three players going to really run a fast break.  the suns would have four who aren't KG.  

Second, one of the things some people chide Garnett for is his selfless play, that he needs to insist he take more shots, since his tend to be quality ones.  Garnett doesn't force it up, he passes out of double teams religiously.  On a team like the Wolves, it's a bit of a flaw, since the onus is pretty much on him to make the team worthwhile.  On a team like the suns, with great outside shooting and at least one other guy next to him who can go to work down low, it would be a big help.

Also, look, you aren't going to get to run a proper fast break every frikkin' play.  when the fast break slows, you run the game through Garnett.  it's a pretty simple plan.



ok, i still dont see garnett being able to do what russell did since hes not that type of a big man, and yes he is very unselfish, but i just think amare is the perfect guy on the suns' type of offense. if you want garnett, may be the one you should give up is marion, because marion is easier to replace. even bowen can replace him if he's gone. but still, amare for KG wont happen. amare will go nuts because no star wants to go there
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Happiness1982
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2007, 11:58:49 am »

King, you're high again- Marion is one of the most difficult players to replace in the league.
Players similar i can count on one hand (Iggy, JSmith, AK, GWallace)
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Josh
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2007, 04:04:01 pm »

Quote from: "bobcatsTRUTH"
what about chemistry issues?  you're giving away the player with the best chemistry with nash in stoudemire...i'm going to guess that it would take at least a year for garnett to acclimate to the suns system, and then you would have to worry about either him or nash getting worn down and not being the players they have been (garnett, although young, has a LOT of nba mileage).
honestly, getting rid of Amare would help the chemistry issues.  There's a constant struggle between Amare and Shawn Marion, because Amare thinks he's hot crap, and Marion thinks he isn't properly appreciated for all he does for the team.

Also, Marion, Diaw, and Garnett can all run a fine pick and roll game.  also, last year, the Suns adjusted to losing three starters, added Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas Boris Diaw and Tim Thomas, and increased Barbosa's role.  adding a player as smart as Kevin Garnett would be a cakewalk by comparison.

also, the suns system really isn't that complicated.  everything is built around the pick and role, and Nash probing.  it's not like they're big on set plays or nothing.
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94by50
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2007, 06:35:09 pm »

Quote from: "Happiness1982"
King, you're high again- Marion is one of the most difficult players to replace in the league.
Players similar i can count on one hand (Iggy, JSmith, AK, GWallace)

So Garnett isn't an upgrade over Marion?  He's only two years older, he's better offensively, he's not insecure, and he's dying to play for a good team.  Sure, his contract is even larger, but if a GM's going to pay the luxury tax, I'd want him to do it for a player like Garnett.  

Besides, Marion wouldn't be enough to pull Garnett from the Wolves.  They would require Stoudamire because of his youth.  And because the Suns will have a high draft pick, they shouldn't worry about losing Stoudamire.  They're going to draft someone even younger who, while they may not have Amare's potential, should be able to contribute right away.
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Josh
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2007, 08:42:00 pm »

he's better defensively in the traditional sense.  but Marion is an ace in the hole, able to guard basically anyone with a decent shot of doing well.  The Gap defensively between Marion and Garnett is negligible, the gap defensively between Garnett and Amare is astronomical.
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Happiness1982
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2007, 01:42:43 am »

Quote from: "94by50"
Quote from: "Happiness1982"
King, you're high again- Marion is one of the most difficult players to replace in the league.
Players similar i can count on one hand (Iggy, JSmith, AK, GWallace)

So Garnett isn't an upgrade over Marion?  He's only two years older, he's better offensively, he's not insecure, and he's dying to play for a good team.  Sure, his contract is even larger, but if a GM's going to pay the luxury tax, I'd want him to do it for a player like Garnett.  

Besides, Marion wouldn't be enough to pull Garnett from the Wolves.  They would require Stoudamire because of his youth.  And because the Suns will have a high draft pick, they shouldn't worry about losing Stoudamire.  They're going to draft someone even younger who, while they may not have Amare's potential, should be able to contribute right away.


no what i was alluding to was that, as Josh just said, Marion can do a lot more and is more of an anomaly, and thus harder to replace. If you got KG for Stat, for instance, who would play SF? Bell? KG cant do what Marion can do and neither can Bell.
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Pervis Ellison
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2007, 01:54:59 am »

its easy, just sign anyone who can shoot to fill the SF with the doucle teams garnett and amare will get down low
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2007, 02:25:18 am »

Quote from: "Happiness1982"
no what i was alluding to was that, as Josh just said, Marion can do a lot more and is more of an anomaly, and thus harder to replace. If you got KG for Stat, for instance, who would play SF? Bell? KG cant do what Marion can do and neither can Bell.

I'm not sure that Marion can do a lot more than Garnett.  Garnett's a better shooter, although he doesn't have Marion's range, he's an even better rebounder and defender (at the VERY least, he's just as good), and he's a better passer and shot creator than Marion.  He's also a far better defender than STAT, who he'd be replacing.  And, frankly, if the rumors are true about Stoudemire being a head case, then all the more reason to deal for Garnett, who doesn't really seem to care about being the man (he certainly doesn't shoot more than he ought; if anything, he's too unselfish).

Look, if the Suns trade STAT for KG, all they do is throw KG in at the 4.  Let Marion do what he always does.  KG can handle himself at the 4.
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Happiness1982
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2007, 03:04:09 am »

lol i agree you missed the bit where i was talking about what would happen if they traded MARION for KG!

KG can do all those things but not at the 3 with Stat at 4 or 5, not like marion can, but he could of course fill stats shoes.
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phiboy207
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2007, 10:29:01 pm »

Man, the Sun's with KG - that would be an awesome team, with or without Amare.  KG would fit well with the Suns - Nash and Garnett on a pick and roll...unstoppable.  Kick in the rest of the team and they would have to be considered the favorite in the West.

I like Amare in Minny too.  He would be the focal point of the offense that does have some parts in place.  If they get a pretty good player in the draft as well, then their on their way.

My guess here is that it can't work for the reason Simmons stated.  How can you trade a draft picks in June in a deal in mid-July?  Draft pick deals need to be done MUCH quicker (like on draft night).  Maybe if the Suns acquire some picks down the road with their 1sts this year, the deal would happen.
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Steady Boy
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« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2007, 01:57:09 am »

I don't see the suns doing that deal. Marion would likely go than amare, that's for sure. Marion and the atl pick (horford or b.wright) I think would be enough for minny.
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94by50
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« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2007, 02:38:01 am »

I doubt it.  I don't think Minnesota would take anything less than Amare for Garnett.  Marion's not a #1 guy, in the sense that he can create shots for himself or anyone else.  (He can do just about anything else on the floor, but he doesn't create shots, except by filling the lanes on fast breaks and spotting up.)  That doesn't even count Marion's age against him, relative to Stoudemire.
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phiboy207
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« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2007, 11:59:48 am »

I think that the only way Minny would take Marion over Amare is if they don't have to give up their pick (7-9 overall).  Getting two picks in the top 10 may be enough to ignore the difference in value between Amare and Marion.
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Happiness1982
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2007, 12:59:55 pm »

If I was the suns GM and they traded stat for KG, i'd be inclined to try and get rid of marion for GWallace/Durant/JSmooth etc, otherwise bankroll would be huge.
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2007, 01:15:37 pm »

Quote from: "CraftyVet"
The Timberwolves get an exciting young big man to start over with, so this deal is really a win win.


Agree with that. Both Suns and Wolves have to do something immediately. Suns need a final puzzle to win with Nash and I do believe with this roster they can't go further than Conference Finals. Wolves need to rebuild for obvious reasons.

Quote from: "bobcatsTRUTH"

what about chemistry issues? you're giving away the player with the best chemistry with nash in stoudemire...i'm going to guess that it would take at least a year for garnett to acclimate to the suns system, and then you would have to worry about either him or nash getting worn down and not being the players they have been (garnett, although young, has a LOT of nba mileage).


They, the Suns, have lot chemistry issues because of Marion and Amare. In another topic, Steve pointed out that the whole Suns team doesn't have too much faith on STAT. I disagree with you about that Garnett needs time to adjust. Nash is the best point in the game right now and he is able to change the whole system -he is the system anyway- to fit to Garnett.
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