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Author Topic: NYK - HOU - SAS  (Read 1231 times)
kobe-24
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« on: August 03, 2011, 08:32:13 PM »

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3oc7qmn
*SA sends HOU a future 1st

NY

Gragic - Douglas
Lee - Shumpert - Walker
Anthony - Fields
Stoudemire - Balkman - Williams
Thabeet - Harrelson

HOU

Billups - Lowry
Martin - T.Williams
Jefferson - Budinger - Parsons
Scola - Morris
Turiaf - Hayes - Montejunas

SA

Parker - Flynn
Ginobili - Neal - Anderson
Leonard - Bertans
Blair - Patterson - Hill
Duncan - Splitter - Bonner
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 09:13:45 PM by kobe-24 » Logged

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Jamm
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 03:30:14 AM »

BAHAHAHAHAHAH!
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2011, 03:34:15 AM »

If you're going to post a trade that would apparently appeal to no-one, at least attempt to articulate your reasoning.
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kobe-24
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2011, 02:23:17 PM »

In response to your dumb feedback:

NY gets some young guys with upside to develop around their core of Melo - STAT - CP3? Gragic is a tough, aggressive, up and coming point guard who showed lots of promise in Phoenix and would thrive after returning to that kind of system. Courtney is a solid 2 and one of the better athletes in the league. He one of those players that can give you a little bit of everything and acquiring him would shift Fields back to the second unit where he played his best last season and give the second unit some a much needed punch. Thabeet is a gamble -- he hasn't shown much is his few seasons but length and defense is what got him to the league, so hopefully he could go out there and be a Joel Anthony for them just run around trying get blocks and boards since he can't do much else. Billups is on the decline and his expiring won't bring in a top notch talent so its worth the risk.

HOU is solid team -- they do pretty well for their lack of star power and experience. This deal doesn't add much star power and it definitely adds experience in Chauncey Billups -- whose brought a winning attitude and great leadership to almost all the teams he's been on. Richard Jefferson who despite all the criticism, did have a bounce back season. And Ronny Turiaf who always brings energy, hustle and defense. They lose some young guys and do get a future first in return.

SA deals Jefferson to free up PT for newly acquired Kawhi Leonard, who they are very high on. Also, the acquisition of Flynn gives them the back-up they lost when they up Hill in the draft, and Patterson and Hill give them some bigs with younger legs to help them deal with an aging TD. Patterson especially, whose a tough, chiseled, blue collar type of player who isn't afraid to get dirty and bang on the inside -- the perfect fit for SA.
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 02:22:41 AM »

It's not dumb to ask you to explain your trade idea.

With regard to the trade itself, NY gets rid of the best player in the trade to upgrade nowhere. Thabeet<Turiaf, Gragic<Billups and Lee is fine but hardly worth losing Billups for. That trade exception is useless.

Meanwhile, Houston gets a nice tutor for Lowry (if you think that's what he needs) and gets Billups' expiring but to get that it has to lose a decent back-up big AND absorb that terrible Jefferson contract. No sense there.

I think the only team who'd be interested would be SA but they won't get the chance because no-one's going to be offering this up.
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kobe-24
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2011, 09:43:06 PM »

It's not dumb to ask you to explain your trade idea.

With regard to the trade itself, NY gets rid of the best player in the trade to upgrade nowhere. Thabeet<Turiaf, Gragic<Billups and Lee is fine but hardly worth losing Billups for. That trade exception is useless.

Meanwhile, Houston gets a nice tutor for Lowry (if you think that's what he needs) and gets Billups' expiring but to get that it has to lose a decent back-up big AND absorb that terrible Jefferson contract. No sense there.

I think the only team who'd be interested would be SA but they won't get the chance because no-one's going to be offering this up.

Billups is the best player in this deal, but he's on the decline, has an expiring contract (and isn't in their long-term plans) and more importantly, won't lead the Knicks past the second round with all top talent in the East. This team is nowhere near where it wants to be and they don't have the pieces to trade for a Chris Paul (who they'll pursue hard in free agrency), so why not make a deal for some young guys who will add depth, still have room to grow, and be apart of their long term plans. I didnt intend this deal to make them contenders in no way, but it is a good set-up move. Next off-season, if they can add Paul and a bargain center, the Knicks would be a very good position to contend.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 04:52:33 AM by kobe-24 » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 04:47:55 AM »

Have you heard the maxim that whoever gets the best player in a deal wins the deal? What's you're doing is having the Knicks trade a still good PG with a avaluable contract for bits and pieces that can be picked up any time. The reason this isn't worth discussing is because no GM is out there trying to parlay a Billups-sized asset into little things. That's what the draft is for; you get young guys on cheap contracts with potential. IF Gragic or Lee were primed for huge breakouts then I would understand it but they clearly aren't.
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kobe-24
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 05:40:19 AM »

Have you heard the maxim that whoever gets the best player in a deal wins the deal? What's you're doing is having the Knicks trade a still good PG with a avaluable contract for bits and pieces that can be picked up any time. The reason this isn't worth discussing is because no GM is out there trying to parlay a Billups-sized asset into little things. That's what the draft is for; you get young guys on cheap contracts with potential. IF Gragic or Lee were primed for huge breakouts then I would understand it but they clearly aren't.

Its valuable only in the sense thats its expiring. And Billups can still play but very few teams would trade point guards with the Knicks right now when you take into account that the PG position is the most talent saturated position in the league and getting more and more talented every year. Billups and Fields aren't going to bring in Paul or D-Will or any other disgruntled superstar on their wish-list. This is a realistic deal considering the roster they have and the current stage of Billup's career. We saw Gragic blossom playing back-up to Steve Nash in Phoenix's up and down system and would be playing basically in the same system in NY -- and Lee was the starting 2-guard, and an important part of the Orlando team that went to the NBA Finals. They might not be destined for superstardom, but they're definitely not scraps.
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 08:54:26 AM »

You ignored the rest of my post. You think Billups isn't an asset but he's twice the asset of anything else involved here. I repeat: you do not move such an asset just to get pieces that aren't starter quality on a winning team. You get those pieces by the draft and as secondary pieces in trades. Check your history.
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kobe-24
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 09:25:48 AM »

You ignored the rest of my post. You think Billups isn't an asset but he's twice the asset of anything else involved here. I repeat: you do not move such an asset just to get pieces that aren't starter quality on a winning team. You get those pieces by the draft and as secondary pieces in trades. Check your history.

Forgive me for ignoring the rest of what you think is a valid point. If whoever gets the best player in the deal wins the deal then I guess Houston wins. Good for them. But when that player is just a solid, but declining thirty-something who isn't on the team because he was really coveted by the team, but simply because it had to do done to bring in someone who does figure into the team's future (and he's forced out of his hometown team and a situation he really enjoyed being in).. anddddd everyone knows the team your currently on is just salivating for a younger stud to replace you, I don't think it's that big of a blow. Again, Billups is good, but he's is not in NY's future. And realizing that although his contract is expiring, he isn't good enough (and the Knicks don't have the assests) to land the Knicks a big name guy or difference maker in a trade, I just think its best for them to trade him now and get some good young guys who they can continue to develop and get a head start in building some chemistry now instead of just bringing in a bunch a new faces in the off-season that would likely be playing together for the first time. And I know you get young guys through the draft -- if the Knicks hadn't given up all their picks in the Melo deal than maybe that could have been an option.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 09:41:30 AM by kobe-24 » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2011, 04:04:00 PM »

But that's just it; the guys you mention are just that: 'good, young guys'. Wow, great. Are you aware that half the NBAs rosters are made up of something similar. Do you know why Denver didn't want to give up Melo even though they were getting 3 good players in return? Let me know when you know what I'm getting at.
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kobe-24
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 07:03:58 AM »

But that's just it; the guys you mention are just that: 'good, young guys'. Wow, great. Are you aware that half the NBAs rosters are made up of something similar. Do you know why Denver didn't want to give up Melo even though they were getting 3 good players in return? Let me know when you know what I'm getting at.

Cuz he's freakin Carmello Anthony! I wouldn't wanna away trade a 25 year old Carmello either. Billups will be 35 when/if the season starts, and he can still be a valuable player on an NBA team, but not the Knicks.
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 07:18:16 AM »

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BeardsNotBombs
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 12:26:51 PM »



It's your own fault for arguing in the trade forum. Here's the format of posting in the trade forum that is successful.
1. Call their trade stupid to whatever level of detail you'd like
2. If it involves Bargnani/Calderon, link to Dice's post
3. Reap benefits of high ground
4. If they reply, post this
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"When MWP retires, he should make a rank of MWP fouls on the NBA like the Horry clutch shots.

I will give this 4 Mettas."

-xlucasx
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 03:54:48 PM »

Haha I dig that meme. +88 internets to you
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