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Author Topic: 3 wins without Bargnani  (Read 2440 times)
rye
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« on: December 18, 2012, 11:00:21 pm »
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I think its safe to say that the Raptors are better without him. Question is, would there be any team willing to take him?
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2012, 11:17:20 pm »
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The downside to making it clear that the Raptors are a better team without him and that it's necessary to get rid of him is that it kills his trade value even further.
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17Medcoy
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 07:06:52 am »
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Face it his trade value was already in the garbage before he got injured.  The rumours I heard was that no one wanted him already even if they threw in Jose.  Trade him for a bag of onions baby onions.
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Zad
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 07:08:55 am »
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There's actually an advantage trading him for nothing. It means you open up a roster and not have to pay his salary. It will also get rid of posters of him with a dumb look on his face
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Oscar Rafone
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 07:11:23 am »
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3 wins without Lowry with Calderon as best player of the team and the team shooting and defending the perimeter much better(while the adversary big man keep however scoring)
But no one open a thread...
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FundamentallY UnorthodoX
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 07:31:13 am »
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Yeah was about to say, more variables then just "no Bargnani" over the past few games.
-No Lowry:
The team run's a structured offense with ball movement with jose on the floor. Lowry's numbers look great but his injuries are negating the defensive upgrade he was to provide over jose and the team's offense looks extremely disjointed and lacks identity when he's running it. I hope he heals up proper but his play style leads to nagging injuries and these injuries lead to a lower level of play. Again I can't argue with his numbers, the team just looks sorta dysfunctional when he's running it. A Healthy Lowry with enough time with the team to smooth things out would be best in the long run, but he isn't their yet.

-Homes Games:
After a brutal road heavy schedule to open the year, the raptors finally return to actually playing a majority of games at the ACC. The ACC where despite their horrible start, they were roughly .500 before this win streak (4-5 I believe).

Couple factors at work here with Bargnani being one of them. We can't assume the team has finally figured it all out and that simply removing him will lead to this team turning it all around.
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MoGrady
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 08:00:32 am »
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The downside to making it clear that the Raptors are a better team without him and that it's necessary to get rid of him is that it kills his trade value even further.


Well, we can package him with Jose and hopefully get a good deal out of it considering Jose is playing great, arguably the best basketball of his career during this stretch where Lowry is out. If anything, I'm laughing at the fact Jose has made another PG controversy out of this season, again. Dude goes out and just competes man. Did the same thing with TJ, Jack, Bay, and now Lowry....so I think one of them needs to go so we can prevent the 2 PG in the lineup.


Problem is, Jose + Bargnani together are about 20M or so in contracts, will be hard to find a package at this point. At this point though, I'd trade Bargs for Drew Gooden and a 2nd rounder, which I'm sure the Bucks would be more than happy to accept.
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Oscar Rafone
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 08:30:28 am »
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Well, we can package him with Jose and hopefully get a good deal out of it considering Jose is playing great, arguably the best basketball of his career during this stretch where Lowry is out. If anything, I'm laughing at the fact Jose has made another PG controversy out of this season, again. Dude goes out and just competes man. Did the same thing with TJ, Jack, Bay, and now Lowry....so I think one of them needs to go so we can prevent the 2 PG in the lineup.
It's not like Calderon cause the PG controversy this time,it was Lowry with his poor level of play and Casey that didn't put faith in Ross to give him more minutes(that Lowry get at 2 with poor results for the team because of the unbalanced line-up)
Calderon is a "known card",you know what he cand do and what he can't do,both offensively and defensively,and is a meter of comparison for the other PG.If you are doing worse than Calderon,and you should be a starting Pg,something isn't going well

Btw,with all this Bargnani controversy,no one noticed that one of the reason why Toronto is coming back to win,is the return from the injury of Alan Anderson at SF,who bring defense,and in the last two games a pretty good scoring contribution too
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MoGrady
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 08:44:52 am »
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It's not like Calderon cause the PG controversy this time,it was Lowry with his poor level of play and Casey that didn't put faith in Ross to give him more minutes(that Lowry get at 2 with poor results for the team because of the unbalanced line-up)
Calderon is a "known card",you know what he cand do and what he can't do,both offensively and defensively,and is a meter of comparison for the other PG.If you are doing worse than Calderon,and you should be a starting Pg,something isn't going well

Btw,with all this Bargnani controversy,no one noticed that one of the reason why Toronto is coming back to win,is the return from the injury of Alan Anderson at SF,who bring defense,and in the last two games a pretty good scoring contribution too

Can you just stop?  and STFU while you're at it?

It's not funny, it's not even trolling, it's just complete and utter stupidity.

Anderson was in the lineup before the Bargnani injury and team struggled. Bargnani's +/- ratings clearly shows the team is better without him. Anderson is not a big difference maker in all honesty either, still has a poor PER and still a complete scrub.

It's clear the team rotates far better defensively without Bargnani, who is a very poor help defender. Down the stretch the games the team is executing far better, while with Bargnani it was a clog in the offense where once he had the ball, he would not pass the ball.

I'm not even sure why you even bother justifying Bargnani and his performance this season. All you're really doing is exposing how much of a f'n tool you are. It's just so blatanly obvious how well we're doing, and you continue to try and defend him.

AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE? Everyone on this side of the forum is tuning you and your opinions out. At this point, you might as well not even post. No one f'n cares, and I can't speak for anyone else, but just cut it out. It's annoying.

I don't posters defending their players, but you give so many stupid and empty supporting arguments. It's unanimously known amongst Raptor fans that Bargs needs to go because he doesn't fit on this team.

He's a hog offensively and looks for his own shot too many times, he doesn't make any of his teammates better, this is a fact. He's a blackhole offensively. What does Bargnani bring to the table? Nothing. His offense is among one of the most inefficient in the league, he takes a lot of shots to get a lot of points.

And to try and defend him by saying Alan Anderson is the reason we're doing well? FOH.


And btw, you *** idiot. You can't blame "Lowry's poor level of play" for this PG controversey. Lowry had a rough few games coming back from injury but for the most part has played great all season long. We're talking about a guy who really values the concept of playing as a team, and it shows on the court.

Out of the 3 games I've seen the Raptors play live this year, I have not seen anyone else on the team who consults his teammates more than Lowry. He communicates with them when he's on the bench, telling them where to go on defense. I remember in the early goings in the season how much Lowry was trying to help out Terrence Ross, a rookie, who just had back to back turnovers and Lowry was really keeping his confidence up. Lowry is a leader, just like Jose. Also, to say the PG controversy is not because of Jose's play is stupid too. 2 triple doubles? Playing arguably the best basketball of his career during this stretch? And you don't attribute any of this to Jose's success?

Point is, Lowry and Jose are two leaders of this team with how they command the respect of the team. It's why I don't like the two PG lineup, one it's undersize, and havng 2 floor generals doesn't work. Of course I'd rather keep Lowry. He's the best player on the team, and among one of the better PGs defensively.
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 09:03:12 am »
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While I do hate Bargnani and they're clearly better without him, the evidence against Lowry is staggering. They're 2-14 in games when he starts and 5-5 when Calderon starts. The team is, shockingly, allowing right around 93 PPG in the 10 games Calderon has started, and 104 per game in the games Lowry has started. Obviously there are other mitigating factors (such as Davis playing over Bargnani for a handful of those games, and Anderson has indeed played well), but I'm not sure I'm prepared to blindly defend Lowry just because he was our off-season coup. He came out like gangbusters, got hurt, came back and played like poop, and now he's hurt again. Plus, Calderon has been just excellent lately. Three games does not a season make, but it will be interesting to see if this trend continues.
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MoGrady
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 09:49:05 am »
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While I do hate Bargnani and they're clearly better without him, the evidence against Lowry is staggering. They're 2-14 in games when he starts and 5-5 when Calderon starts. The team is, shockingly, allowing right around 93 PPG in the 10 games Calderon has started, and 104 per game in the games Lowry has started. Obviously there are other mitigating factors (such as Davis playing over Bargnani for a handful of those games, and Anderson has indeed played well), but I'm not sure I'm prepared to blindly defend Lowry just because he was our off-season coup. He came out like gangbusters, got hurt, came back and played like poop, and now he's hurt again. Plus, Calderon has been just excellent lately. Three games does not a season make, but it will be interesting to see if this trend continues.

Let's wait to see what a healthy Lowry can do with this team without Bargnani. My point is, this isn't so much a "the team playing better without Lowry" than it is playing without Bargnani. I'm completely fine with letting Jose walk this off season and Lowry taking the reigns for the season after. Once Lowry is a FA, we can start fresh at the PG position or re-sign him (only if the price is right though, I wouldn't pay him more than 10M annually.)
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Zad
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 10:09:16 am »
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I would give Lowry the benefit of the doubt since he's new to the system and team. He still needs to learn his teammates. But for what Ive seen, he's not afraid to go inside and get the foul. Not even close to how Bargnani's game. Sit, catch, shoot rinse repeat.

And then you can talk about the attitude.

Bargnani has nothing good to offer but his 3 point shooting. Inconsistent at that too.

Bargnani has no business in the NBA. Even after 7 yrs he still gets lost in defensive schemes. You just cant fix stupid.
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xduckshoex
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 11:04:55 am »
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Btw,with all this Bargnani controversy,no one noticed that one of the reason why Toronto is coming back to win,is the return from the injury of Alan Anderson at SF,who bring defense,and in the last two games a pretty good scoring contribution too

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 11:47:50 am »
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201212160TOR.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201212180CLE.html

But yeah,I guess that the fact that he scored 42 points in the last two games didn't matter
It just didn't happened,right?
Man,you are a lost cause
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xduckshoex
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 11:57:26 am »
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How did he play in that Dallas game?




Oh, he missed all of the shots he took?  Well then.

It's sad that you'll say anything, no matter how ridiculous and stupid it is, just to deflect blame away from Bargnani.
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