Trade &/or Draft Speculation for Bulls

[Da_Madhouse]

I don't want to make the playoffs this season and get slaughtered just to prove a stupid moral point ? I want the Bulls to lose, Charlotte to lose more and the Kings to Win. I want to dump salaries and go get elite players whether through the draft or free agency, I want to Bulls to be solid 1 thru 10. How bout you ?

Players to definitely keep: (In order)

Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah
Taj Gibson
Tony Snell
Jimmy Butler

Players to definitely get rid of:

Marques Teague
Carlos Boozer
Mike Dunleavy
Kirk Hinrich (last year on deal or he'd be #3)

Players to draft: (consider draft position dreamers)

Doug McDermotte or
Jermani Grant
Jusuf Nurkic or
Mitch McGary

Players to pursue in free agency:

Rodney Stuckey

Players to consider moving a core piece(s) for:

Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Love
Joel Embiid
Jabari Parker
Julius Randle
Andrew Wiggins

[dabulls1]

Players to definitely keep: (In order)

Derrick Rose
Jimmy Butler
Joakim Noah
Tony Snell
Taj Gibson

Players to definitely get rid of:

Carlos Boozer
Mike Dunleavy
Marquis Teague
Kirk Hinrich (last year on deal or he'd be #3)

Players to draft: (consider draft position dreamers)

Our Pick (which will be around 10 when it's all said and done):
Zach LaVine
Rodney Hood
Jerami Grant

Charlotte Pick:
Aaron Gordon
Glen Robinson III
Willie Cauley-Stein
Doug McDermott
Adreian Payne

2nd Round Pick:
Jerian Grant
Isiah Austin
James McAdoo
Aaron Craft


Players to pursue in free agency: (depends on who we keep)

Lance Stephenson
Greg Monroe
Melo

Players to consider moving a core piece(s) for:

Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldridge
Joel Embiid
Jabari Parker
Julius Randle
Andrew Wiggins
Marcus Smart

Agree with what you're saying. Moral victory bullshit is a waste of everyone's time. I changed around orders and added pieces here and there for my opinion on what we should do.

[Fitz]

Thoughts:
-Obviously Jimmy is more important to keep than Snell. Unless some team comes up with some insanely good (for the Bulls) offer for him.
-I think they should keep Dunleavy unless they think they are going to a few million short on a max for someone in FA. Good veteran presence and shooter for a pretty good bargain (probably could have gotten full MLE elsewhere). Also depending on who they draft I would be down for keeping Augustin if he stays cheap. He's been like Nate-lite without the whole irrational confidence guy thing going for him.
-I feel like Aaron Craft would be a perfect Thibs player to back up Rose. Not really a scorer but they can address that in the first round.
-Please no Melo. Please.

[Da_Madhouse]

Don't forget Snell is just a rookie ... And he doesn't have to be taught to shoot. I like them both , But I would keep Snell if I had to choose. Thibs can make him a defender and his jumper is far better and will always be far better then Butler's. Perfect world they keep both.

Tony Snell - The Best Highlights (New Blood Bull) || College Hoops Mixtape

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-madhouse/2013/08/tony-snell-the-chicago-bulls-young-king/

He could be really good in a year or two. I see Jimmy as more of a defender, like a Ronnie Brewer type. his offense is better then Brewer, but I don't ever seeing him as better then Snell offensively.  

[dabulls1]

Don't forget Snell is just a rookie ... And he doesn't have to be taught to shoot. I like them both , But I would keep Snell if I had to choose. Thibs can make him a defender and his jumper is far better and will always be far better then Butler's. Perfect world they keep both.

He could be really good in a year or two. I see Jimmy as more of a defender, like a Ronnie Brewer type. his offense is better then Brewer, but I don't ever seeing him as better then Snell offensively.  

A) I wouldn't call his jumper "far better"
B) Jimmy is a significantly better all-around player than Ronnie
C) Keep them both. There's 0 reason to ditch either of them unless it's part of a trade for a big time player, then you could move whichever one the other team wants

[dcenate05050]

I like Snell. I think he'll be a very good 3 & D player. Good compliment to Butler in the future.

[Da_Madhouse]

Yah its close. But with only little time to view them in the league its hard to tell, in time the comparison will be easier to make, but keeping them both is the plan. Not sure if they want Niko Mirotic at the 3 or 4 ? I can see him as a three like Turkoglu or Galinari and also as a stretch four. He can handle the ball, but not against NBA 3's ... SO most likely as a stretch four. He is a better offensive Talent then Boozer and note as bad a defender. He won't start right out unless he shows up big in pre-season.. but at worst will share equal minutes with Taj.

When or IF he comes over will determine how they spend and Draft. I'm not sold he makes the trip before next season.

Nikola Mirotic 2013 Scouting Video

Still developing the team so the only clarity for next few seasons is:

PG: Rose
SG: Undefined (Developing Snell)
SF: Undefined (Developing Butler)
PF: Mirotic - Gibson
C: Noah

Draft Picks - Cap Space

[dabulls1]

Yah its close. But with only little time to view them in the league its hard to tell, in time the comparison will be easier to make, but keeping them both is the plan. Not sure if they want Niko Mirotic at the 3 or 4 ? I can see him as a three like Turkoglu or Galinari and also as a stretch four. He can handle the ball, but not against NBA 3's ... SO most likely as a stretch four. He is a better offensive Talent then Boozer and note as bad a defender. He won't start right out unless he shows up big in pre-season.. but at worst will share equal minutes with Taj.

When or IF he comes over will determine how they spend and Draft. I'm not sold he makes the trip before next season.

Nikola Mirotic 2013 Scouting Video

Still developing the team so the only clarity for next few seasons is:

PG: Rose
SG: Undefined (Developing Snell)
SF: Undefined (Developing Butler)
PF: Mirotic - Gibson
C: Noah

Draft Picks - Cap Space

He's definitely a stretch 4, not a 3. He'll be a revolving door at the 3. And unless traded for a big name, Butler absolutely has a starting spot at the 2 or 3 (depends on who we get for the other spot...).

[Da_Madhouse]

How many teams in the Top 5 would he be a starter?

Miami = NO
Indiana= NO
OKC= Maybe
Portland= Maybe
San Antonio = Maybe

Where would he rank against small forwards ?
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Melo

Where would he rank against shooting guards ?

1. Harden
2. Kobe
3. Wade

Don't get me wrong I like Butler and hope he does fill that small forward spot, but 'definitely' might be too soon to say with cap space available and high draft picks. Not sure he is Top 5 at either position. I feel to win a title you need 3 of 5 starters in Top 5 at there position. He needs to improve his PPG and is more natural at small forward IMO.

[Oscar Rafone]

He's definitely a stretch 4, not a 3. He'll be a revolving door at the 3. And unless traded for a big name, Butler absolutely has a starting spot at the 2 or 3 (depends on who we get for the other spot...).

If anything, Mirotic is more of a perimetral 5 than a 3(given that PF IS his natural role and there's no reason why you should put him in a different position)

[dabulls1]

How many teams in the Top 5 would he be a starter?

Miami = NO
Indiana= NO
OKC= Maybe
Portland= Maybe
San Antonio = Maybe

Where would he rank against small forwards ?
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Melo

Where would he rank against shooting guards ?

1. Harden
2. Kobe
3. Wade

Don't get me wrong I like Butler and hope he does fill that small forward spot, but 'definitely' might be too soon to say with cap space available and high draft picks. Not sure he is Top 5 at either position. I feel to win a title you need 3 of 5 starters in Top 5 at there position. He needs to improve his PPG and is more natural at small forward IMO.

Nobody said he was elite and tried to compare him to the best players in the NBA. Are we going to get one of those guys to take his spot next year? NO. There's nobody available that is a big enough upgrade to take both the SF and SG spot from him.

And if we go by your winning a title logic... Rose is a top 5 PG when healthy, Noah is a top 5 C... We can fill in any of the other 3 positions with a top 5 player and be set. Jimmy is the perfect role player to have next to Rose and another scorer. Get a top 5 SG, start Jimmy at the 3. Get a top 5 SF, start Jimmy at the 2. Get a top 5 PF, start Jimmy wherever the hell you want. He's definitely a starter for us next year, unless he ends up getting traded.

[Da_Madhouse]

Nobody said he was elite and tried to compare him to the best players in the NBA. Are we going to get one of those guys to take his spot next year? NO. There's nobody available that is a big enough upgrade to take both the SF and SG spot from him.

And if we go by your winning a title logic... Rose is a top 5 PG when healthy, Noah is a top 5 C... We can fill in any of the other 3 positions with a top 5 player and be set. Jimmy is the perfect role player to have next to Rose and another scorer. Get a top 5 SG, start Jimmy at the 3. Get a top 5 SF, start Jimmy at the 2. Get a top 5 PF, start Jimmy wherever the hell you want. He's definitely a starter for us next year, unless he ends up getting traded.

Right so you can't using your logic slot Jimmy in as a long term solution at either small forward or shooting guard. He is a starter but that doesn't mean he is their long term solution, only time will tell what players they get VIA free agency or draft and since its Jimmy's 3rd season and Tony hasn't played half a season yet, it isn't save to assume either are long term. Both talented yes, but not long term yet. Still have a lot to prove and see what moves they make.  Now if Mirotic becomes that 3rd guy with Rose and Noah then ...Yes you could get by with both Tony and Jimmy... Which maybe is there plan, and spread money around to build a deeper team. But until they utilize their assets we just don't know..

Name a championship squad that didn't have a TOP 5 player at three spots ?

[dabulls1]

Right so you can't using your logic slot Jimmy in as a long term solution at either small forward or shooting guard. He is a starter but that doesn't mean he is their long term solution, only time will tell what players they get VIA free agency or draft and since its Jimmy's 3rd season and Tony hasn't played half a season yet, it isn't save to assume either are long term. Both talented yes, but not long term yet. Still have a lot to prove and see what moves they make.  Now if Mirotic becomes that 3rd guy with Rose and Noah then ...Yes you could get by with both Tony and Jimmy... Which maybe is there plan, and spread money around to build a deeper team. But until they utilize their assets we just don't know..

Name a championship squad that didn't have a TOP 5 player at three spots ?

Well going back to 2000 (since I don't care to go any further):

   The 2000/01/02 Lakers
   The 2003 Spurs (the later Spurs teams are debatable if Manu is a top 5 SG. He wasn't in 03)
   The 2004 Pistons
   The 2006 Heat
   The 2009/10 Lakers
   The 2011 Mavs

Pretty much every championship squad didn't have a TOP 5 player at three spots... The early Lakers only had Kobe, Shaq, and a bunch of role players. Manu was an average player in the 2002-03 season when they won. You could probably make some kind of an argument for him in the later championships so I didn't include those. The Pistons were a great team, but they weren't even close to being full of stars. The 2006 Heat rode Wade and Shaq to the championship. The 2009 and 2010 Lakers rode Kobe and Pau. If you want to argue that Bynum was a top 5 C then go for it, but it really wouldn't make a difference. He played 14mpg in the playoffs one year and 24mpg the next... hardly a difference maker. The 2011 Mavs obviously rode Dirk to a championship... They also had a great defensive C in Tyson Chandler but not much else. You definitely don't NEED 3 top 5 players at their position to win it all. It's a very nice thing to have, but NOT a necessity.

[Da_Madhouse]

Listen to Gar Forman speak about the core? He never mentions Boozer ? Man !! I hope they move him this year. So they can that Amnesty Clause in-case they need to use it for Rose ?
http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/gar-forman-speaks-deng-trade-bulls-future

[dabulls1]

Listen to Gar Forman speak about the core? He never mentions Boozer ? Man !! I hope they move him this year. So they can that Amnesty Clause in-case they need to use it for Rose ?
http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/gar-forman-speaks-deng-trade-bulls-future

I agree. But the only problem I see with that is that next year is the last time you can use the amnesty isn't it? There's no way they are giving up on Rose that quickly unless he can't move at all anymore. If next year isn't the last year to use it then this would be perfect.