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Author Topic: Where do we go from here???  (Read 2554 times)
olsons3
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« on: July 05, 2007, 03:27:52 pm »
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It seems the biggest sore spot from a positional standpoint going into this summer was at PG.  So we waived Greene, McLeod is FA, and Armstrong is old.  That leaves us Tinsley.

We need a shooting guard who can actually make a 3 pointer, so we dredge up Kareem Rush, who's work ethic is so bad that Charlotte waived him.

Our all-star pseudo-leader PF is incapable of playing anything but isolation basketball, and still hasn't figured out how to pass out of a double/triple team.

Our chemistry sucks.  Artest gone, didn't help.  Jackson gone, didn't help.  Croshere, Johnson, Jones, Jones, all gone, didn't help.  Who's left???

Larry&Donnie:  I think it is time to take the first step and admit we have a problem.  Everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes it is best to recognize that, and correct it.
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maryjanecapri
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2007, 07:32:31 pm »
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it seems to me the biggest problem is that there is no consistency on the team. carlisle was constantly switching the roster around and never came up with a starting line up. granted part of that was he was dealing with thugs and unmotivated players (or players incapable of truly leading.)

now the pacers find themselves scrapping and scraping to get hold of a roster that looks like it could start for an NBA team. no one wants to play for indy except players that couldn't play on other teams or players wanting to break into (or back into) the NBA.

the pacers need to focus on putting together a group of players that actually want to play together. i honestly don't think they can do this building around o'neil. why? he'll always be unhappy playing on a team that doesn't suit his style - nothing but post-up grind-em-out ball. that style of ball is fading in the NBA. the NBA is now a fast-paced shoot-em-up game.

i hope Rush can bring something to the team. i know he's had a hard go with it but other players have as well and come out of worse slumps.

at this point i'll take whoever they can get that will work hard and play well with the team and the style. i don't care if they get rid of o'neil. i haven't like him much anyway. i'd much rather see a team of no-name players working hard to bring some consistency and cohesiveness to a team in desperate need than see a star player demanding the ball when he can't get out of a double team. or a point guard that still thinks he's on the playground.
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31
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2007, 08:48:05 pm »
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First off, I think Donnie & Larry realize they made mistakes - first by trying to be patient with Artest & Jackson, and then expecting that Peja would re-sign with the team. When those plans backfired, they were fortunate to get Harrington - but obviously Big Al wasn't the solution.

I am happy to see that the Pacers didn't make any moves to get into the draft, or trade any other players. This team is full of underachievers and untapped potential. I think the best move they've made all year is getting Jim O'Brien -- a coach who has a history of getting something out of nothing.

We never really got to see how good this team really is, partly thanks to injuries, but mostly thanks to Carlisle. Dunleavy, Murphy, Diogu, Daniels, Granger, Harrison, Shawne Williams are all potential Most Improved Player award winners, and I expect at least one of them to make a strong case.

As for Kareem Rush, I will be shocked if he actually makes the final roster He clearly isn't the type of player this team needs. Bird has said on many occasions that he will get a shooter - and there are plenty still available.
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lil_flip_remix
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2007, 08:58:19 pm »
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Get Brevin Knight for PG and Mo Pete for SG that can make 3s
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olsons3
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 08:58:12 am »
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Quote from: "lil_flip_remix"
Get Brevin Knight for PG and Mo Pete for SG that can make 3s


With what???  There is no money left.  

The only way we can get players is through a trade, or invite/walkon.  The only players we have that anyone would want to trade for is Granger, Williams, and Diogu.  That isn't because they are the best, but on this team they are the "best bang for the buck".  

If we try and trade any of our players, you are not going to get much value offered in return.
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Cross
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 09:40:07 am »
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Interesting situation here. First, team should get rid of some cap space, which should require waiting as Murphy and Dunleavy have horrible contracts. If anything, build around Granger and Tinsley. I don't consider Tinsley to be a bad pg if healthy.

Trade Jermaine for expiring contracts, maybe a Theo Ratliff, Tony Allen, and Gerald Green for Jermaine swap. Yeah Jermaine isn't the best compliment next to Al Jefferson but they should both be a force inside. Nobody but Dwade will want to drive into Jefferson and Jermaine :roll:

You can look like

Murphy/Foster
Ike Diogu/Williams?
Granger/Dunleavy
Gerald Green/Daniels
Tinsley/Allen

With Theo's contract off the hooks, you should be able to get a decent player in FA and a good draft pick in the 08 draft.

OR

Keep Jermaine and try a different approach. My idea? Trade Tinsley, Diogu, and Daniels for Bibby and Garcia.

The Kings get younger at the 1 and the 4 while getting a player who can play the 2,3 in Daniels. However, his character may be a question.

The Pacers will look to content by adding Bibby to this roster. Garcia is the young 3pt shooter the Pacers will look at. They can look to trade Dunleavy or Murphy as the season progresses.

The team looks like

Bibby/Armstrong
Dunleavy/Garcia
Granger/Williams
Jermaine/Murpy/Foster/Baston?
Murphy/Foster

Team can make the playoffs imo.

This team is in trouble unless they can get good value for Jermaine or tinsley...wait this team will be in trouble regardless of what they can get. Team needs to turn it around
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31
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 03:02:51 pm »
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Quote from: "Cross"
Interesting situation here. First, team should get rid of some cap space, which should require waiting as Murphy and Dunleavy have horrible contracts. If anything, build around Granger and Tinsley. I don't consider Tinsley to be a bad pg if healthy.

Trade Jermaine for expiring contracts, maybe a Theo Ratliff, Tony Allen, and Gerald Green for Jermaine swap. Yeah Jermaine isn't the best compliment next to Al Jefferson but they should both be a force inside. Nobody but Dwade will want to drive into Jefferson and Jermaine :roll:

You can look like

Murphy/Foster
Ike Diogu/Williams?
Granger/Dunleavy
Gerald Green/Daniels
Tinsley/Allen

With Theo's contract off the hooks, you should be able to get a decent player in FA and a good draft pick in the 08 draft.

OR

Keep Jermaine and try a different approach. My idea? Trade Tinsley, Diogu, and Daniels for Bibby and Garcia.

The Kings get younger at the 1 and the 4 while getting a player who can play the 2,3 in Daniels. However, his character may be a question.

The Pacers will look to content by adding Bibby to this roster. Garcia is the young 3pt shooter the Pacers will look at. They can look to trade Dunleavy or Murphy as the season progresses.

The team looks like

Bibby/Armstrong
Dunleavy/Garcia
Granger/Williams
Jermaine/Murpy/Foster/Baston?
Murphy/Foster

Team can make the playoffs imo.

This team is in trouble unless they can get good value for Jermaine or tinsley...wait this team will be in trouble regardless of what they can get. Team needs to turn it around


This team would have NO chance without Jermaine O'Neal. He is a legitimate MVP franchise player. There is no way they would get anything close to his value in a trade.

As for your Jefferson & Jermaine scenario, why would they want to make the Celtics better? You're suggesting that the Pacers trade O'Neal and get Gerald Green and Tony Allen in return? And you're serious?

As for the Sacramento scenario, I'm not sure why Sacramento would want Tinsley and Diogu when they have Bibby, and Artest and Abdur-Rahim at the 3 and 4? None of those players are close to retirement. Sure, Garica would look good in Indy, but again...why would Sacramento trade him?  

The fact is, the Pacers team as it stands NOW can make they playoffs. They have the talent. Now they have the coach.
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toppot1000
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 10:16:47 pm »
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All i  have to say is you keep J.O. you get nowhere, you trade him...you get nowhere.
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saleem
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 01:08:46 am »
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The Pacers are not as bad as many have expressed. (I'm not saying they're great.. Tongue ) They have a few factors in their favor for the upcoming season:

O'brien is a good coach and (IMHO) an upgrade from Carlisle in the
management of players.

JO should be healthier after rehabbing over the summer.

Rush is actually a good fit as a shooter. (Regardless of what went
down in Charlotte.)

They are in the East! Where every team is just one good string of
wins away from making the playoffs. (or as Cleveland showed, The
Finals!)

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toppot1000
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2007, 08:40:58 am »
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Really...you think Jim O'Brien is a good piece? The teams he should coaching is high school. He lives and dies by the three. Last time i checked the pacers dont have a hand full of sharp shooters. He cant stay in any city because once they see it is good old Jim, they fire him.

The way I look at the east is. If you are just trying to squeak by and make the playoffs you are not getting anywhere. You WILL NOT win a championship. So, in that case, give me the lottery. I would rather build my team than stand stagnant just making the playoffs every year with no hope of actually winning...
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paygan247
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2007, 12:51:13 am »
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How about Oneal for Camby, JR Smith, and Najura. You'd get a great post defender to Team with Troy. Then you'd have an expiring Najura contract so some space after a year of a hard-nosed vet. JR Smith is basically done in Denver, so they'd love to get rid of him.
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paygan247
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2007, 12:55:36 am »
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As for Jim O
In Boston, that was the only way for his team to win. And he got them to 2nd round I believe. Danny Ainge who's shown how great a GM he is, blew up the roster b/c he doesn't think vets can teach younger players which has been brilliant.

AI bitched like he does and scape goated him for the great Mo Cheeks. NVM the team improved 10 wins.  1 year later, AI and Cwebb are gone.
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nsloan23
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2007, 08:59:28 am »
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Quote
As for Jim O
In Boston, that was the only way for his team to win. And he got them to 2nd round I believe. Danny Ainge who's shown how great a GM he is, blew up the roster b/c he doesn't think vets can teach younger players which has been brilliant.


he got them to the Eastern Conference finals
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