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Author Topic: TOR - BOS  (Read 6882 times)
rapsfan94
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« on: December 20, 2014, 12:03:10 am »

Toronto gets: Jeff Green
Boston gets: Landry Fields, Greg Stiemsma, 2015 1st, 2016 2nd

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knightofdreamz
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 03:31:23 pm »

Congratulations for posting possibly the worst trade proposal ever posted on these boards.

The Celtics are very good at getting value for players and Jeff Green is a very valuable player.
He is a 3rd, possibly 2nd option on a contending team, who is also a good defender, fairly young and is still improving. I believe he is still signed long term as well.

Ive noticed Raptors fans really overvalue their players and seem to think the rest of the league holds the same value.
Stiemsma is trash. At best a 3rd string center. There is a reason why the Celtics ditched him in the first place. As well as uhh.... Minny, Bobcats i think had him and i think he played for the Knicks? Clippers maybe? There was a third team in there. Whatever, no one wants him and for good reason and its not like he is a valuable expiring. Shedding 3 or 4 million (rookie contract i think) does not balance out the complete lack of talent.

Fields, again, another garbage player who is at best a back up 2/3. But not at all worth any kind of trade value as the Celtics could simply sign a guy from the DLeague and that player would probably be better.
A fine example of players being completely overvalued by a NY or LA market.

The only value of this trade for the Celtics is a first round pick, which would be 19+. Which means next to nothing for value. Of course to top things off you do not even have them receiving the only valuable first the Raptors have, the Knicks 2016. But it seems proper trade value was not the purpose was it? You just wanted to rape the Celtics so the Raptors could be something more then a first round exit.

This trade is so bad that the Celtics would record the phone conversation and then send it out to all other GMs and owners for an NBA GM comedy hour. The Raptors would then become even more of a laughing stock of the NBA. For this suggestion, you sir are fired.


If the Raptors want Jeff Green then they will need to give up something that is worth a damn AND potentially take a contract they might not want (but would still help them). Which, giving up any kind of value without touching DD or Jonas is impossible to do with this Raptors team (no, i dont consider Lowry that valuable and i dont think any trade to bring in a 2nd option works with him. But....).

Raptors get:
Jeff Green
Gerald Wallace
2015 Celtics 2nd
2016 Celtics 2nd

Celtics Get:
Amir Johnson (exp)
Chuck Hayes (exp)
Landry Fields (exp)
2015 Raptors 1st
2016 Raptors 1st
2016 NYK 1st

On paper this would be an amazing trade for the Raptors and it looks like they could actually contend in the East with the addition of Green and Wallace. The only problem is that Lowry has a history (which even happened with the Raptors) of not being able to deal with more then one other ball handler and/or an inability to work in a serious option beyond one other person. Which we saw with Memphis, Houston and with Rudy Gay (who is a very versatile player and has shown he can adapt to any situation).
IMO if the Raptors are going to improve they need a different PG and Lowry cannot be on this team.

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lil_flip_remix
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 11:50:26 pm »

Congratulations for posting possibly the worst trade proposal ever posted on these boards.

Not even close to being one of the worst. Tongue
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Minichcc
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2014, 04:59:16 pm »

You think Jeff Green is worth 3 1sts? Ha
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knightofdreamz
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 03:52:08 pm »

You think Jeff Green is worth 3 1sts? Ha

.... How would he not be?
Have we been paying attention to the value of a 20+ first round pick lately? Better yet, do you know or understand the role Green would play on a contending team?
What is he? 26? 27? Could easily put up 18-21 and 8 rebounds as a third option 3.......
....Yes, Jeff Green by himself is worth 2 first round picks that will all be 20-30 and one that would be 15+.
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Jack Dempsey
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2014, 09:08:23 am »

Raptors get:
Jeff Green
Gerald Wallace
2015 Celtics 2nd
2016 Celtics 2nd

Celtics Get:
Amir Johnson (exp)
Chuck Hayes (exp)
Landry Fields (exp)
2015 Raptors 1st
2016 Raptors 1st
2016 NYK 1st

And you really believe HE posted the worst trade proposal ever posted on these boards? Dude, that is just ridiculous. The OP is much closer to a fair deal.
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Death2SmallBall
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2014, 02:58:11 pm »

haha

no



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knightofdreamz
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2014, 03:20:20 pm »

And you really believe HE posted the worst trade proposal ever posted on these boards? Dude, that is just ridiculous. The OP is much closer to a fair deal.

Are you kidding me?
OP posted a deal that only gives the Raptors anything of value. Raptors don't have anything to offer for a good player except firsts. The players they have, many of them, have gone through their rounds in the NBA and have only found any kind of minutes and system with the Raptors, The final resting ground for many careers, and for a reason.

The players given up in said trade are not worth anything at all. Two of the picks are over 20, one lottery.
Yes, Jeff Green -a guy who is near all-star level, plus a depth player, is definitely worth that.
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Jack Dempsey
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 05:35:20 pm »

Dunno, I guess I am underrating Green a little bit but you are definitely overrating him too. No way in hell would I offer 2 let alone 3 1st rounders for Green.
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knightofdreamz
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 08:30:55 pm »

Dunno, I guess I am underrating Green a little bit but you are definitely overrating him too. No way in hell would I offer 2 let alone 3 1st rounders for Green.

I think you're drastically over estimating the value of picks in a typical draft (not like last year) for teams that are contending or on the verge of contending.
Two of those picks are going to be 20+ in drafts that are not very deep. At best, they will be able to draft good secondary players or players that will turn into role playing starters 4-6 years down the road.
The only valuable pick is the Knicks swap and now that i notice its for the least favorable. So even that will end up being a 20+ most likely.

If Toronto called up Ainge and offered less then 3 20+ picks or Jonas + one or two other picks for Green, he would laugh and hang up the phone.
Look at what they just got for Rondo. Not to say he is not worth it, but its a massive risk if he does not resign (and his health) and the Celtics picked up two guaranteed quality players, a developing young player plus a first and a second.
And this is for a guy who has spent the last 2 years injured and is expiring.

This is not a different situation in terms of quality of player.
28 year old, with playoff experience, ideal 2nd or 3rd option on a contending team. Plays 3/4. B+ defender. And at right above 30 minutes putting up 19pts, 4reb, at 50% from 2 and 34 from 3. Who is also signed long term for a very reasonable contract given his production, talent, experience and overall value.
Im not sure what you would expect to pay for that, but 3 players that fit the 20-30 pick area on average and expiring cap relief, is probably underpaying for him since its all a big risk and its safe to say another team would probably be willing to give up a young stud + a pick for him.
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Minichcc
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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 08:33:13 pm »

Jeff Green is not even close to an All Star. Trevor Ariza is a better player than Green. Ariza would not get you two 1st rounders. Teams don't give up 1st round picks unless they're incompetent, i.e. Nets, Knicks. Is Rondo will only net you that haul then you're crazy to think Green will get you more than a late first.
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Minichcc
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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2014, 08:34:21 pm »

You honestly think that Jeff Green is worth more than Jonas?
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Oscar Rafone
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2014, 10:48:08 am »

Jeff Green is a very valuable player.
He is a 3rd, possibly 2nd option on a contending team,
No he is not
That's why he doesn't worth that much as you pretend. He was sacrificed with no regrets from a contender where he was considered a replaceable scoring 7th man at best
Also, Raptors does not need at all Jeff Green, because their bench scoring is yet fine enough. Raptors could think about getting him only if they got a deal that satisfy them and can think about sending some 1st only if they send some bad contract in the deal
Something along the lines of Fields + Hayes + 2015 1st round pick for Jeff Green + Jae Crowder or things like that
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knightofdreamz
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2014, 03:15:41 pm »

That's why he doesn't worth that much as you pretend. He was sacrificed with no regrets from a contender where he was considered a replaceable scoring 7th man at best

Uh, no. He was traded by a non-contending team (at the time) in his 3rd year and only because they knew what they had with Ibaka and knew they needed a defensive center to get passed Bynum, Howard, Grizzlies, etc. Scoring, was not a concern in the least.
But none of that does anything to show his value. Magic flat out cut Billups, does that mean Billups did not have his value? Ben Wallace too. Does that mean his defensive player of the years didnt happen?

How do you equate what one team did during a development period 4 years ago when they were trying to fill out a roster and what a players current value and ability is?


Also, Raptors does not need at all Jeff Green, because their bench scoring is yet fine enough. Raptors could think about getting him only if they got a deal that satisfy them and can think about sending some 1st only if they send some bad contract in the deal
Something along the lines of Fields + Hayes + 2015 1st round pick for Jeff Green + Jae Crowder or things like that

Honestly it seems like you just want to ignore the fact that he is putting up near all star numbers and not even getting full time starter minutes. All so what? You can suggest a trade of two really bad expiring players and what will most likely amount to one depth player? Really? That is terrible. Dont you think if that was the value of Green, he would be gone already? Stop and think about that one for a few seconds.

BTW, the Raptors wont get passed the second round without another option. I even think suggesting second round is a bit too much for this team. Come playoff time you need that third option, even in the East and there is a very good reason why once again, lower seeded teams will be targeting them in the first round. Add a real second option to this team and that is no longer the case, its also no longer the case that they will get knocked out by a lower seed nearly every time.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 03:41:15 pm by knightofdreamz » Logged

Jack Dempsey
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2014, 05:32:38 pm »

Without any research, the last player that got you 3 1st rounders I can think of was Shaq in 2004 but I'm not sure of that one either. He was traded to the Heat for Odom, Butler, Grant and I think 3 1st rounders. The trade you proposed is better than what the Lakers got back then IMO. And you CAN'T compare Jeff Green to Shaq.

Expiring contracts and ONE 1st rounder is all I'd offer for Jeff Green.
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